Interview with Mr. Paul Jones
[Born 12/07/1925)
Interviewed by Sahil Yakhmi
Recorded on 10/08/2005 by Sahil Yakhmi
Transcribed on 11/24/2005-11/28/2005 by Sahil Yakhmi
Sahil Yakhmi: Today is October 8. I am Sahil Yakhmi and I am interviewing Paul Jones, at 8503 Sargent Lane. Mr. Jones is 79 years old and was born on December 7, 1925. Mr. Jones served in World War II. Mr. Jones was in the infantry and artillery, and held the following rank: first sergeant.
Sahil Yakhmi: Where were you living at the time that you were drafted?
[00:00:30]
Paul Jones: Madison, Indiana.
SY: Do you recall your first experiences in service?
PJ: Yes. When I was drafted from Madison, Indiana, we went to Fort Harrison in Indianapolis. I was scared to death, very upset about being drafted. But my stepfather was a sergeant at Fort Harrison who stayed at Fort Harrison because he was a crane operator. He and I associated together while I was there. And of course, [my father’s presence] eased my tension quite a bit, and with the other guys, how come he knows the sergeant? So it kind of eased the situation – a bit. That was an experience that I will never forget.
SY: Can you talk a little bit about your training experience?
PJ: Training in Camp Blanding was tough. It was hot, sandy, and you really got a workout. I think that was thirteen or eighteen weeks there. But, you had some pretty tough sergeants in training periods. They didn’t pull any punches. They were tough, and if you followed the rules and do what you’re told, cooperate, and so forth, you didn’t have any problems.
SY: Was it a lot different from your previous experiences before being drafted?
PJ: Yes, definitely. At the time, I was an eighteen year old, and going into that category, it’s pretty rough, as I described.
SY: How did you get through it?
PJ: Well, I made up my mind, that I wanted to get through it and do what was right, and hopefully one of these days I could accomplish something and be more than a private.
SY: When you served in World War II, where did you serve, at which locations?
[00:04:08]
PJ: Mostly Germany.
SY: Do you remember what it was like when you arrived in Germany?
PJ: Well, let’s go back to where I arrived first, which was as I mentioned, Camp Lucky Strike, which was in LeHarve, France. When we got there, it was just one mass of mud. That’s what you walked through going to the latrine, drills, and everything. It was absolutely horrible.
SY: What was you’re assignment while you were in France?
PJ: Well, that was just a staging area. There wasn’t really any assignment. At that particular time I was a private. You did what everybody else did based on what you were told by your noncoms.
SY: What was it like when you arrived in Germany after being in France?
PJ: Well, I believe the first place [that we went to] was Salzburg, Germany. There, my division relieved another division. It really got to the point where we swapped our weapons, namely, in my case, an 80-millimeter mortar. And we took up their stand, and they left. And that was in the back of the schoolyard.
SY: Did you see combat?
[00:06:03]
PJ: No, not physically. I didn’t shoot anybody with my rifle, but my combat was based on firing shells through the air, and somebody else told us what adjustments to make. Chances are, yes, it hit some of the enemy, but I didn’t see that.
SY: Were there any casualties in your unit?
[00:06:38]
PJ: No, none that I know of. We were considered a heavy weapons company, not just shooting a rifle. I was with mortars, like I said, that went through the air.
SY: How far away from the enemy were you while you were in Germany?
PJ: It could have been as much as a half a mile, or maybe three quarters of a mile.
SY: While you were firing shells at the enemy were they also retaliating?
PJ: That’s unknown. I would say that they were Germans.
SY: Can you talk a little bit about a couple of your memorable experiences?
[00:07:53]
PJ: As related to what?
SY: As related to being in the army in Europe during the war.
PJ: Well, I think probably I could go back to a little town of Aschau. That was outside of Berchtesgaden. At that time, I was the staff sergeant. I was appointed by our company commander, who was a first lieutenant, to become the acting first sergeant. I think his name was Toffler. He transferred, and we got a new captain. I think his name was Captain Clay, and the first day that he came, he asked me, “are you the acting first sergeant?” and I said, “Yes, I have been for several weeks.” And he said, “Well, you're going to get the stripes that go with that position.” So he then rushed through my promotion from a staff sergeant to a first sergeant. I’d call that an experience. That was pretty exciting.
SY: Were there any other experiences that were memorable?
PJ: Well, one of the memorable ones was that from this little town, we moved into a SS barracks. And that was located in the Bavarian Alps. There’s a picture of the Bavarian Alps in there. And, I met a young lady by the name of Inga who was the battalion translator. Her an I had a relation together, however she still had a lieutenant that she was going to marry, but he went home on points. I was given the assignment clean up and paint my company’s quarters in a massive area of buildings. When I did that with prisoners of war, I���d send this truck each day, and I got painters, plumbers, electricians, who were all POWs. I’d send my truck after them, and bring them back to me. So after I painted my company’s headquarters, then the battalion commander gave me the assignment to paint all of [the buildings] with my POWs. That was quite an experience. This was after the war now. Then we also started an NCO club. I can’t think of the town right off hand, but there we had food, and of course drinks, and a band. And that was our entertainment.
SY: Which medals were you awarded during service or afterwards?
[00:12:43]
PJ: European Theater Ribbon with two bronze stars, Good Conduct Medal, Victory Medal WWII, Occupational Medal, Belgian Fourragére.
SY: Can you describe those medals?
PJ: I don’t remember the European with the two bronze stars; I can’t describe the color of it, but I remember the Combat Badge was probably two and a half inches long, with a color of blue, and it had a wreath around it in a U shape. Of course, the Good Conduct Medal was red and white. The Belgian Fourragére was like a little hose that you wore across your shoulder and under your arm.
SY: How did you receive the medals?
PJ: Medals were received usually from the company commander. That would be a captain or acting captain. Good Conduct you earned based on your own behavior. The other medals you earned because in the case of what was awarded to me, it was something that the division might have won as a group.
SY: As a first sergeant, can you describe your duties?
[00:15:11]
PJ: Well the major duties of the first sergeant was to do all of the administrative work for the company, that’s the daily rosters, then referred to as the morning report. You really tried to solve any problems that your noncoms had, that they would consult you on. I know on one occasion, we had a very, very bad soldier, I’ll call him. There were many of the rooms that I decorated that he would spit on the walls. He was very hard to control. None of my sergeants could control him, so I put him in the stockade. I forget how many weeks or months that he stayed there, but he was so bad that some of his sergeants would have him dig a hole six feet and six feet across; that was his punishment.
SY: Did you plan any attacks?
PJ: No.
SY: How did you stay in touch with your family?
[00:17:23]
PJ: Mail. I’m trying to think of what mail they had that we used, but the best answer is that keeping in touch was with mail. We corresponded with each other through mail, and if I moved, eventually their mail would catch up with me.
SY: Was mail very slow because of the war?
PJ: It slowed it somewhat. Yes.
SY: What was the food like?
[00:18:06]
PJ: Some [food] was fair, some was good. Overall, I would say the food was good. I had no complaints.
SY: Did you have plenty of supplies?
PJ: We never had any want for any more supplies. The [amount of] supplies was good. What we needed we got.
SY: Do you know if that was typical of most units?
PJ: No, I don’t. Our quartermaster supplied us very well.
SY: Did you feel pressure or stress being a First Sergeant?
[00:18:51]
PJ: Sometimes, yes.
SY: How did you deal with it?
PJ: Well, there were problems of just a bad soldier. In one case, that no one could discipline. He was a complete troublemaker. Other than that, I really liked being a first sergeant. I had good noncoms that were part of my staff.
SY: Was there anything special that you would do for good luck, or that a lot of soldiers would do?
[00:19:51]
PJ: No, I wouldn’t do anything for good luck.
SY: How did people entertain themselves?
PJ: Well, we had established an NCO club in town that we pooled our alcohol for; we also pitched in food that was brought to the club for our entertainment. Also we had movies in the mess hall in the evening. There were various things to do in the barracks. The guys played cards, shot pool, walked into town. That was pretty much it.
SY: Were there entertainers?
PJ: No. You mean that would come to us or our barracks? No. I did not visit or see any entertainers where I was at.
SY: What did you do while you were on leave?
[00:21:29]
PJ: Well, I’ll describe one leave, which was in Switzerland. I think Bern or Zurich is the capital of Switzerland. That was an interesting place. It was just like seeing what you see here (Buicks, Cadillacs). One interesting thing about it was that the place that we stayed was a hotel way up in the mountains, which was reached with a cable car. You could visit other places up in the mountains with a cable car that ran on tracks. Most of those [cable cars] were almost in a vertical position, going up the mountain.
SY: What was the typical length of a leave?
PJ: I believe it was around seven days, or maybe ten.
SY: What kinds of places would you visit while you were on leave?
PJ: Well, while I was in the Unites States, I went back to Madison, Indiana, my home. I also had a leave in Switzerland. I had to pass up some leaves, namely Paris, in order to go to Switzerland. I chose Switzerland over Paris.
SY: Do you recall any humorous or unusual events?
[00:23:29]
PJ: No.
SY: Where did you travel while you were in the service?
PJ: At one time, I did go through Brussels, Belgium to return half tracks after the war to a depot. But, we didn’t stay there overnight, we just drove through there. I spent a lot of time in Munich. Salzburg was another place that I spent time. I spent a lot of time in Linz, Austria after the war. I really liked Linz, Austria; that was quite a place.
SY: Can you describe it?
PJ: Well, it had that Bavarian look. As I recall, where we stayed in Linz, Austria was right off of the river. We had to cross the river to get into that place. When the war ended, one of the many roads leading into Linz, was lined up as far as you could see with Germans surrendering to us (a line of vehicles). I never will forget that we had one soldier that went down the line and demanded that they give him their wristwatches. He got punished for that.
SY: Were there any pranks that you or other soldiers would pull?
[00:26:36]
PJ: I can’t think of anything on that question right off hand.
SY: Do you have photographs?
PJ: Yes.
SY: Can you describe some of them?
[00:27:11]
PJ: This shows an 81 millimeter mortar, as I described earlier. That shoots up in the air. This is me, and this is my sergeant. This is a group that was part of the squad, and that’s the gun. It has a tube and a tripod that goes into the ground after the gun is fired many times, which stabilizes it. This is the instrument where you adjust the height. When you are firing this weapon, somebody is telling you, “raise it up fifty feet, twenty feet to the left,” to get it on target. That was the way that it worked then. This photo is me, before the war. That was my first car. It was a 1934 Chevrolet. The story of this car was that it belonged to my uncle. [--Not Clear--] When he went into the army, I was told that I had to put the car in the barn in the backyard (I lived in the city). So, my grandfather and I knocked out one side of the barn to put this car in. I didn’t like that one bit. So anyways, after a while (I’m in touch with my uncle) I went out with the crank, and tried to turn it over. It wouldn’t turn over. Why? Because it was in gear. So, I informed my uncle, whose name was Bill Kimmel, that the engine was frozen, and that we would have to take it out. So he said okay, and I said that I wanted to buy it. He said that I could buy it for a hundred and fifty dollars, but that when he came home, he could use it. I think this photo was in Linz. These are the Bavarian Alps in the background. There were probably six or eight of these buildings, and they were housed by SS troops. This is where I had prisoners who were painters, electricians, plumbers, etc. that painted all of these barracks. I did that job. That’s me as the first sergeant of the company. I was probably nineteen at the time. Yes, I was nineteen. All I know about this one is that this was a very close friend of mine. I believe his name was Hensley. That was when I was a squad leader, and he was in my squad. At the time, he was a PFC. This [photo] was taken in my quarters. I had a tailor to make that shirt for me. That badge that I described (two and a half inches with a kind of wreath around it) was referred to as the Combat Badge. Any division that was in a battle was awarded that. It looks kind of funny that back then I had some hair.
SY: Do any of these photographs have particularly memorable stories behind them?
PJ: Yes. This guy was Sam. I think he was an Italian, a very good friend. He and I were very good buddies. We as they say now, “hung out” together. We would go to bat for each other. This picture is in my quarters, and I’m with a very close friend of mine. He was a war officer. I can’t come up with his name right now. But, he really tried to encourage me to go to OCS school, and in ninety days I would come out as an officer. But I didn’t. This picture here is my stepfather who I described earlier. I was with him at Fort Benny Harrison. That is my mother. I was home, on leave. That was, I believe, in Indianapolis, instead of Madison. He made staff sergeant at Fort Harrison. He was buck sergeant, and he made staff sergeant there. This is a place that we visited in New York, when we departed for LeHarve, France. Maybe I missed something earlier, but on the topic of experiences, when we went overseas out of New York, it was referred to as the Liberty ship. And, I got ill all the way over there. I couldn’t get to the sides fast enough. Sometimes, I didn’t make it. We did on one occasion (I can’t remember where) go dear hunting. This shows the two deer that we put on the wire cutter on a jeep. That was my Jeep, and we named it Autoskaput. This car was abandoned. We drove it around, and I was seeing a girl by the name of Bernadine, so we named it Bern. It was an old command car, and I think after a time, the Germans abandoned it. This guy here was a very good friend. He ran my motor pool. He was the sergeant in charge of all of the vehicles for my company. We did confiscate motorcycles. A lot of them were left. Since they were left, there was no gas to operate them. And of course we had gas.
SY: What did you think of officers and fellow soldiers that you met?
[00:38:28]
PJ: Most of the soldiers that I met I liked, overall. They were just young, like I was. There were a few that were not good soldiers. There was a thief amongst us. We finally caught him. But overall, most of the guys that I associated with, I would say were good.
SY: Did you keep a diary?
PJ: No.
SY: Do you recall the day that your service ended?
[00:39:28]
PJ: I believe that it was May of ’46. I think it was maybe the fourteenth. I’ll say the from memory; I’m pretty sure it was May 14 or May 15, 1946.
SY: Where were you at that time?
PJ: I was at Camp Atterbury, in Columbus.
SY: What did you do in the days and weeks after your service ended?
PJ: After a week I went back to work.
SY: What was your occupation?
[00:40:37]
PJ: Well, I attached heels in a shoe factory for lady’s shoes. It was called air cushion shoes in Madison. That was a piecework job. You got paid so much as one hundred dollars. I remember sometimes back then, that if you brought home forty-five or fifty dollars a week, it was a lot of money.
SY: Did you make any close friendships during your service?
PJ: Yes, but there is no contact with anybody that I was really close to in service. There were lot’s of guys that I really liked and respected, but as I think I said earlier, we’ve all gone in different directions. We are not doing any corresponding at all.
SY: Did you join a veteran’s organization?
PJ: I belonged to the Knights of Columbus. I did belong to the American Legion. I just dropped out of that.
SY: What did you go on to do as a career after the war?
[00:42:30]
PJ: What did I do for a career? I moved from Madison to Fairmount, Indiana. I worked for my uncle, who made flyswatters. It was a big business in Fairmount, Indiana. From there, I went to Indianapolis, and got a job at RCA. I worked there for one day, and at the end of the day, they said that this job ran out and, “we don’t need you anymore.” So, the foreman said, “well, you’ve done such a good job, I’m going to try to get you back.” So in the meantime, I went to Allison’s, which made jet engines. After about a month, I got laid off there in a cutback. Then, RCA and Allison’s both called me back to work at the same time, thanks to this foreman. Dick Clark was his name. I never will forget him. So I chose to go back to RCA. So they put me in the warehouse. I was called a warehouser, which is keeping track of stock, delivering stock, and moving stock. So I did that for several months, and I finally told my foreman, “Hey. I don’t want to do this. I want something better than this. So they made me a stock analyst. The stock analysts chased parts. So then, from that they made me a foreman in the same stockroom. From that, they made me a general foreman in the same stockroom. Then, out of the clear blue one day, I was called for an interview with the staff guy in records. There was an opening for a materials control manager. I didn’t think that I had a chance to get that, but I was chosen for that job. So then, eventually, that job became staff. I reported to the plant manager. And again, I had my own crew, and my own foreman. While I was there I retired, back in ’83. We did a lot of business with Reader’s Digest. We did all of their music for them (records, tapes, etc.). So after I retired, they hired me as a consultant. They had a plant that was all screwed up, so they sent me to Duncan, Carolina. I stayed there for several months and got it to run and set up their procedures. And that job ran out, so then I retired. I cut grass and washed cars.
SY: Did your military experience influence your thinking about war or the military in general?
[00:47:00]
PJ: Well, I think the war that we are doing right now is absolutely uncalled for. They’re killing us everyday. I have to agree with Bill Clinton that it’s not a war that we’re going to win. I don’t see why we ever got into it really. They didn’t attack us. It’s best I don’t get into my political feelings on that subject. You heard today that there were two marines killed. I think we lost eight in the last two days.
SY: Have you attended any reunions?
PJ: No.
SY: How did your service and experiences affect your life in general?
[00:48:14]
PJ: They improved my life, from this standpoint. When I went in [to the war] at my age, let’s face it. I was a young buck. I was a kid. It makes you grow up, and you learn how other people act, good and bad. So, my experience in service without a college education really helped me to advance myself in my career at RCA.
SY: Is there anything that you would like to add that we haven’t already talked about?
PJ: Well, I think that your questions have pretty much covered it, if my explanations suited your questions. I tried to do that.
