Transcript for Doris Phillips
Interviewed by Genna Yedlicka
[b. 8/13/1922]
Interview Date 12/2/2006
GY: Today is December 2, 2006. I am Genevieve Yedlicka and I am interviewing Doris Buckwalter Phillips over the phone from Indianapolis, Indiana. Mrs. Phillips is an acquaintance of mine. Mrs. Phillips is 84 years old and was born on August 13, 1922. Mrs. Phillips served in the United States by working in a wartime factory as a welder in World War II.
What was your family background Mrs. Phillips?
DP: Well what do you mean by that? I’d like to make it short. I was born in a little town in Southern Illinois—I have a twin sister and a younger sister and my father was a general contractor for the U.S. government—built houses and things like that. My mother, who at that time did not work, eventually became the assistant dietitian at the [0:1:19] Morris Hospital. Is that enough? I went to school like all little kids did and then we moved north when my twin sister and I were six years old and our younger sister was four. And Dorothy and I went to a small school in [0:1:38] Morris Illinois where my grandparents lived—who had moved up here from the south, southern Illinois because they were in the mining business. My great-grandfather was brought over from the [0:1:54]_____ Mine in southern Illinois. Dorothy and I went to grade school and had a terrible time because we had a southern accent and the teacher was always yelling at us and making us stay after school and learn how to say things the way they say them up here. So my twin sister was very, very conscious of being told to do that and it really hurt her feelings. I never cared about it very much, but to have fun. So we finished school and then when we got to high school my twin sister was married as soon as she graduated from high school but I wasn’t. My boyfriend was at Purdue University who later became a copilot on a B-26 and he and I were married shortly after we were out of high school. He was in college and he left college to go to the air force which all the boys did in those days. We were married for a little over a year and travelled all over the south to the different airfields. Then he went overseas and was killed—he and the whole crew—the pilot and the gunners and everything on the B-26. So I went back to college and stayed normal and two years later I met Mr. Phillips and we got married. And we have been married for how many years Jim? [pause] 61 years. We have two daughters one who is 69 and one who is 66 and one granddaughter who is 32. Not bad…We own our own home and live in Wheaton, Illinois and have a kitty named Molly. What else do you need to know honey?
[0:4:11]
GY: Did you have your two children during the war?
DP: No. After the war.
GY: Where did you live during the war?
DP: We lived in—Oh my—you mean my first husband. Did you want me to talk in between there where I worked in the factory?
GY: Yes please.
DP: When I got out of high school the war was on and we were about to start in so we had a big company in Morris, Illinois where we lived and grew up and came from the south. They made ice cream cartons and boxes from Marshall Fields and all the big stores around the country. And they turned in into—at least part of it, the ice cream department—where they made the cartons. Whenever they were called they put the food in to feed the boys when they were in the service, the army. So I decided I’d do good and go there and work. So I went and worked the night shift. I worked from twelve until six or seven in the morning. And I welded—you know what that is?
GY: Yeah.
DP: Okay. I welded the rims that went around the box. You know how they go in and how they snap them on. Well I had to stop doing that, Genna, because my foot got so sore. And that sounds funny but it gets very, very worn out on the welding machine because you have to keep clamping. [0:5:57]. So the boss, who’s name was Jack Dempson, he knew our family. He put me on the other side of where the machine was where there was a big long table—high up—and you sat on chairs, stools and they were slanted like in the produce department at the store. As they would weld the top of it, I would take the box part which was made in the box department which I wasn’t involved in and I would have to take those welding things and put them on top of the boxes. And then we would put the lids on them and after we sent them to the government and they’d put food in them. And I did that for—he was still in the air force but then we got married and then I left—I don’t even remember. I really don’t, honey, remember how long I worked there. But it was a lot of months and it was hard work and your hands were a mess and so were your feet. And I worked 12 to 7 or 12 to 6 every night.
GY: What was the company’s name?
DP: Morris Paper Mill.
GY: Okay.
DP: It’s not there anymore it went out of business two years ago. The buildings are still there and other companies are in there now but I don’t know who.
GY: Why did you choose that activity?
DP: Well because I thought it was something to do for the war. And to see all of my friends and the boys that I knew in high school. And Jim—I didn’t know Jim—they all went into the service so we girls all thought we should do something like that and we did. The whole department was probably 90% girls. We all went there thinking we were doing a lot for the boys because then they could get their food. And that’s why we did it—it wasn’t fun and we weren’t paid a great deal of money but it was something we felt we were doing for the war effort. And Wayne called me one day and said would you like to get married and I said yes, when? So we were married and I stayed with him for a year and a half before he was sent overseas as a pilot and was killed. That’s about the end of the story, honey.
[0:8:39]
GY: Were you given and type of training?
DP: Nope we were put in there and put on the welding machines. And our boss would come along and watch us and we would put the rims of the boxes underneath the welder and then we would press our feet on the big, heavy pedals like in the car. We’d push those and then it would spark. We had to wear gloves all the time. It would come down like a needle and they had to be spotted in two places. I don’t know how to explain it. Do you know what a rim looks like on an ice cream box in the freezer? Around that is a rim made of thin metal I suppose and that would fit over the top of the box which was made in another part of the factory which I didn’t have anything to do with. I went around from the welding machine which I really did use. It was hard. I went to the other side which was shaped like a vegetable stand and I would sit then on the stool and put the top and the bottom on the carton and that would be sent to the government.
GY: Were you unionized?
[0:10:00]
DP: No.
GY: How did you feel about this?
DP: I don’t care. I don’t have much thought about it—if someone wants to be in the union then fine if they don’t then quit the job and go somewhere else. I never got into any of that—I had too many other things to think about.
GY: Did you develop a lot of friends during your service?
DP: Well a lot of the girls and boys—not boys well most of the boys were in the service—but most of my girl friends were working there. Yeah, my youngest sister thought she’d try it out but she did something else in the factory—I can’t remember now. So I didn’t see James very much, but most of our friends worked there. We did it because we thought it was nice, fun to do it and send it to the boys. They needed help and so we all went. Keep in mind, Genna, when Dorothy, Jane and I grew up, we were just a little older than you are now. Then all the guys went to the service. We rarely saw any young men around—they were all gone. We decided we would work in the factory. My twin sister didn’t. She was a secretary for a lawyer for many years downtown. But Jane and I worked there—we had fun because all our girl friends were there.
GY: How did you feel about the war in general?
[0:11:42]
DP: Well it was something we had to do, Genna. We didn’t have attitude young people have today. We knew that it had to be done and we didn’t like it. We lost a lot of good friends—a lot of boys that we all went to school with and a lot of boys at Lane school which was very small. It was called Sydney, Illinois [0:12:09]. He lost 7 or 8 out of his class and they only had about 16 or 18 in the class. It was something that had to be done. We could not allow what Germany was doing—they were not only destroying Europe, they were going to come over here. So it was just one of those things that we did. Our grandparents grew a garden with all fresh vegetables all the time and grapevines and everything in the back yard. By that time my mom and dad were gone—they were dead—we all did our help, you know. We figured it was something that had to be done. Dorothy’s husband was in the Navy and my sister Jane’s husband was in the army and he was in the air corps. It was life, Genna. We didn’t go out or demonstrate and scream all over the place. We had to do it or we were going to have the Germans over here and take over our country then the Japanese. We didn’t want that to happen. We were much more patriotic back then, Genna, than people are today. The people today, the children today and everything, they have more money and more everything. We were always poor. Most of our people were poor—it was during a depression—so we figured we had enough trouble, we didn’t want Germany over here and taking over. It was a terrible, terrible thing and we lost a lot of boys. But it was something that had to be done. Now Iraq is a different story. [0:14:15] I don’t know whether we should be there or not. I haven’t decided. Now back in those days—and its hard for young ladies like you to realize that—but it was so bad that I can remember when we’d hear an airplane at night after the war started, we were all scared to death. We would all run and get out of the way—if we were in the yard we ran in the house because we thought it was a German airplane. It was not pleasant but it made you a stronger person to have to live this way. I’ve never felt—even losing Wayne and his whole crew who were killed in the crash—I never felt real, real awful. If it hadn’t been that, Germany would have been over here today taking over our country. They didn’t take over, they would have. That’s what was happening, Genna.
GY: Okay. In your community, were people of different ethnicities and races treated differently?
DP: No. My best girl friend all through high school was black. Her name was Francis Kennedy and she had two brothers and the middle brother—Francis was the oldest and Bobby was the middle and I can’t think of the youngest boy’s name. Bobby was drowned when he was in the river when he was fishing one day. No Francis Kennedy was my best friend. And they were the only black family in Morris and her father was a welder thing where he took care of horse’s feet—Blacksmith. Her mother was a nurse and worked at the same hospital where my mother was the assistant dietitian. She and I were friends and she went away to school and she became a nurse. I went away to college and was nearly a teacher until I met Jim. [0:16:36] No I still know today—we have neighbors that are colored and they are wonderful. Some of them are nicer than the whites. We have a lot of Mexican families. We live in—there are 100 or 200 town homes—condominiums—we have our own front door and go outside and all that. I have no prejudice.
GY: What social activities were you involved with during work or after work with your coworkers?
DP: Not much. We worked from 12 at night to 7 in the morning. We’d sleep all day. At night we would go to a movie or something but not too much. There wasn’t that much to do in those days, Genna, like you boys and girls have today. We had a ten cent movie. It was a lot of money to us then.
GY: Did you know anyone who got married during the war?
DP: Well I'm sure I did back then. But I was one of the earliest to get married so I was never home. I was traveling with Wayne for nearly a year when he was learning to be a pilot so I don’t remember all the girls that really married and left. A lot of them did but I don’t recall. One of my other friends, Elvira was her name, don’t laugh. She never did marry until she was about forty. So my girl friends were all married but I don’t recall when they got married. My two sisters were married.
GY: Did you worry that our side may not win the war?
DP: No. Never. Never entered my mind—I knew they would.
GY: Do you think that medical care changed because of the war?
DP: Yes.
GY: How so?
DP: How so? Well because in the war—just like the Civil War and WWI—they had to learn, the doctors had to learn a lot to take care of the boys who were hurt or lost limbs. They didn’t practice, I don’t want to use the word practice, but they learned what to do and how to do it. By the time the Second World War came around, we had more educated doctors that went over and took care of our boys and took care of them when they came back—Big army, navy, air corps, whatever hospital that took care of them. A good example is Bob Dole. Ask your mom and dad about him. He was in the—he ran for president and nearly won. And he has one arm that is useless, which years ago in WWI—which I don’t remember, I wasn’t born—they would have cut the arm off like in the Civil War. But not in this war, WWII, the young doctors that went over there were great. They had to do some good, Genna.
GY: Did you have any worthwhile experiences because of the war?
DP: Oh my goodness, honey. You are really going through my mind. Did I have any worthwhile experiences when I was going through the war? Well I know. You say worthwhile. [0:20:58] I learned to be a little bit more thrifty, you can’t have everything and if you want something you have to work for it. It isn’t handed to you. Because of that I was always more able to take care of myself than so many other children. They can’t. You have to learn those things and you have to do things that you never though you would. You became very, very self reliant. Instead of running to have something done, you figured it out yourself.
GY: What was your most memorable experience?
DP: In the war? Oh my goodness. The most memorable experience in the war. You mean before, during, or after? During. I suppose getting married. All the air corps boys came to our wedding. It was something nice—we were married in Montgomery, Alabama.
GY: What was the wedding like?
DP: Oh it was pretty. All of his brothers were there—and all of the family, well not all of the family could afford to go to Alabama. It was at a beautiful Methodist church and the preacher, minister was very, very nice. Wayne was dressed in—he wasn’t an officer yet—he was dressed in whatever those everyday uniforms are—cadet uniform on. It was just beautiful. I met so many nice people. Young ladies like myself who were far away from home and married and living away. We lived in Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana. We lived all over. I think getting married—and I met a lot of good friends, of course a lot of them are dead now, I just keep going on living.
GY: Can you tell me a little bit about the shortages and rationing for food?
[0:23:41]
DP: Oh my. That was the worst part. But you know everyone had what they called a Victory Garden. My grandfather who my sisters and I were with at the time, dad was gone in Florida, he put in potatoes and tomatoes and sweet corn and green beans. All over town all you saw was the Victory Gardens. I don’t think we ever really called them that though. They were just our gardens. In the back yard in town—this was in town, we lived in town—we didn’t live on the farm—my grandfather even had chickens. A lot of people did. They raised chickens to save money because we couldn’t get the sugar and we couldn’t get this and we couldn’t get that and we couldn’t get gas. Everything was rationed and you only got so much a month. You would get what they called Green Stamps and you would use those when you went to the store as your money. But no we had a massive garden and we had fun—we had grapevines and people lived like that. That’s the way people lived because you just couldn’t buy things. But it was fun. Everyone else was doing them so it wasn’t different.
GY: To what extent was there hoarding or black-market activity in your area?
DP: Oh none. People weren’t like that then, Genna. We all lived together, honey, and we all got along and we helped each other. We did that when there wasn’t a war. It was being raised differently than most people are raised today.
GY: How did you feel about the war news from newsreels or the radio?
DP: Those radios and the movies—I thought it was fine. I liked to see what the troops were doing. I was always very interested in the war and knowing what was going on. Of course I lost a lot of good friends and we didn’t have television then. Oh and one thing I have to tell you, Genna, was when they first told us that we were in war—and I’ll never forget that time on the radio—every time my twin sister and I, my younger sister and I—I used to be a roller-skater when I was in school and put on shows—every time we were ready to go to the rink in Plainfield, Illinois, and all of the sudden we heard an airplane and everyone was afraid. Afraid to go out of the house because we thought maybe it was a German airplane or a Jap. We would all run in the house because we were afraid—not that it would do any good in the house—but we thought that we had shelter. I remember that real well because that used to scare me and at night when we heard planes coming over, it was just horrible. We would always think it was the enemy that had gotten into the United States. [0:27:15] So I remember that well. Does that kind of answer your question?
GY: Yes. Where were you on V-E Day?
DP: On Victory? I was in New York City.
GY: How did you feel when you found out?
DP: I was in Time Square and my twin sister and I had gone there for a little vacation. We heard all these bells and all of this noise and we though “my goodness, what is going on?” We ran out and we got in the elevator in New York. We were out and we got on the elevator and we went down to Time Square and they were all yelling “The war is over!” and everyone was crying and it was just horrible. We got down to Time Square and we were watching the Ball, the one that drops on New Year’s Eve—all the sudden this sailor came up behind us and it was a boy from home. He lived in a small town outside of Morris. His name was Frankie Nimmon. He looked and Dorothy and I and we looked at him and all the sudden we all looked at each other and started to cry. He just happened to be home and I never knew why and Frankie never told me. But it was a riot down there, let me tell you. So then we stayed down there for most of the night and most of the day and then went back to our friend’s. Of course we returned home shortly after that. But it was interesting to be there, Genna.
GY: I bet. Did you keep your job after the war?
DP: No. I went back to college.
GY: Is there one thought about your wartime experience that you would like to share with future generations?
[0:29:13]
DP: Well I would like to say this. Over the years and since I lost Wayne the way I did and his whole crew, I think war is—now don’t get me wrong when I say that we all agreed with war and it was fun and it was this and it was that—it wasn’t. It was sad. It was scary. I hope that some day that people can live in harmony and not always every so many years have to have a world war. It was a terrible, terrible time to live through and it was awful and we lost a lot of friends. I wouldn’t want to do it again, but if we had to and it meant saving America—then I would do it. I feel that in America today���I feel that if America is not being taken over by other countries—I think that we have always been very strong and I don’t know how to say it. I just don’t like what’s happing in America today. It isn’t the America it used to be—it isn’t any more. It’s more foreign that it is American. I don’t know whether it’s good or bad. I just hope we never have to do it and I hope that soon we get out of Iraq. I don’t have many thoughts on Iraq because it is far, far away and I don’t really know what’s going on over there and I don’t keep up with it. I hope we never have another one, Genna, I hope you never see one—or your sister. They aren’t fun, honey. They make you a stronger person mentally, and even physically. But is that all good? I don’t know. That’s all I can say. I hope we never have another one.
GY: Is there anything else you would like to add?
DP: No, I just would like to say that it is nice of you to do this and I haven’t though about working in a factory for a long time. I have been too busy with the family and taking care of Jim. I guess you know from Christine that I’m going blind so I don’t see as well as I used to and I have great difficulty but I never let it get me down. I'm a really strong Swede and I’m going to stay that way and both of my sisters are gone now so I’m alone. I have Jim, and my two girls and my granddaughter and that’s enough.
