Joseph Simpson
July/3/1951
DL: “Today is Sunday, October 5th, 2008. I am Drew Links and I am interviewing Joe Simpson at 6460 Sunset Lane, Indianapolis, IN 46260. Mr. Simpson is Director of Administration for Indiana Legal Services. Mr. Simpson is 57 old and was born on July 3rd, 1951. Mr. Simpson served in the Vietnam and held the following rank of medic.”
DL: Where were you when you first found out about getting drafted?
JS: [Well,] before you get drafted, they give you a physical. So, in the year of 1971 I took a physical in June of 1971. And based on that physical, they would tell you if you could go back to school or not and I was [in] my second year in college. And, when they got through my physical and all my examinations, they told me not to enroll in school, and that I probably would get drafted. My draft number, back then, was eighteen. So, the lower the number, the more likely you were going to get drafted. So, my number was eighteen, and they told me that I would get drafted. I was working at L.S. Ayres warehouse, you know, waiting to hear, and my mother called me on the phone at work and told me that there was a letter from the U.S. Army and Selective Service. And I had her open it up, and they said, ‘…you are here by inducted into the U.S. Army, November the 17th, 1971.”
DL: So, what was your first impression after you heard the news you were to be drafted?
JS: Pretty sad… you know, because of finding the reality of going into the service was there, and I didn’t really… [well,] not like I really wanted to go, but I didn’t want to go, ‘cause I had seen what happened to my brothers and friends. But, I knew I had to go.
DL: So, when you were drafted, did you pick the service branch that you joined?
JS: No. When you do your physical, they line you all up in a row. And, they’ll say, “Count off.”
And I was three, and three was U.S. Army. If it was two, I would’ve been Navy. one, I would’ve been Marines.
So that’s how they selected [us] back then. Where you were entered, or where you were going to be, by standing in a row, counting off.
DL: Do you recall your first days in boot camp, or in service?
JS: Well, first day in boot camp was- First, I left out of here in the night- nighttime, pretty close to the evening… Mom dropped me off, she was crying; everybody was feeling all bad. I got pretty close, it was around Thanksgiving- a matter of fact, the day I left, was the day before Thanksgiving. I ended up down in Fort Knox, so that’s what made it real gloomy, because I spent my first Thanksgiving away from home, and I was down in a fort where nobody was there, and we had to do waitering for people who were on the thing. And I didn’t know anybody, nobody knew me, we stayed there for three days. And took a long bus down to San Antonio, Texas. That’s where I was, my boot camp- I became a medic. Boot camp was real similar to where I went to private school. I went to a boarding school, and, it felt familiar to me, because a lot of the routines- making the bed, and all that stuff was very similar to what I did, so I sort of settled in, but I was still very, very, very lonely.
DL: How did you get through it?
JS: I think going to Pine Forge Academy, which is where I went to high school, as I said before, was pretty much like [boot camp]- The drill Sergeant always used to say to me, “Simpson, looks like you’ve been through this before. Everybody’s cracking, you know, you can do this.” I said, “because I’ve been through [a] place probably pretty worse than this.” You know, boarding school, which it was. And it was just a lot of fun. But, it was just a mere fact that I had some experience being away from home at a boarding school. And, you know, getting to bed at a certain time, waking up at a certain time, had to make sure your room’s clean. So a lot of that was familiar for me, and I started getting in my comfort zone.
DL: Were there any specific training that you specifically went under in boot camp, because you were a medic?
JS: Yeah, in medic, you had to learn to be a person who basically helped someone to live or die. Your job was- you know, a lot of it was teaching you emergency medicine… You know, take a person's temperature, heartbeat, pull- draw blood, you know, a lot of basic stuff. Nothing extensive, like a medic on an ambulance who just pulled [up in front of] your house, but it was still extensive, we did six weeks of it. Six weeks. Stuck down in a [part of] Fort San Houston , which is a big fort. And they had all the medics over in one area, and like I said… it was pretty lonely. You know, you got to call home now and then, get a letter… but it was still lonely. Yeah, yeah, and I was young, so… and a lot of people were worrying about whether or not they would end up going to Vietnam. That was the biggest scare, you know, because they were still shipping people out to Vietnam, at the time that I was still there.
[0:06:12]
DL: So, you were shipped to Vietnam?
JS: I was, I volunteered to go. There was- I played basketball, that was my sport. And, in playing basketball in Fort San Houston, I joined the Fort San Houston team… I think we won a division that year.. And there was a Colonel who was coaching that team. And he was a doctor, and he was putting together a unit to go over to Vietnam, of medics, and different kinds of people to go over. I think his job was basically to go over there and clean it up, bring people home, you know; find the bodies, and stuff like that. So, a lot of us on that basketball team went. And, that’s pretty much how I-. I didn’t have to go, but I ended up going, because I felt like I wanted to go see- it was my first experience really getting out of the country, you know. And the war to me, you know, the war was over, but the war wasn’t really over, when I got over there. I figured that everything would settle down, and when I got there, it wasn’t. It was pretty complicated.
DL: Where exactly did you go in Vietnam?
JS: We did a lot of traveling around. I mean, the cool thing about it, when we got over there, a lot of Vietnam had settled down, so we could go to Saigon. I mean, we went to a lot of places. Not places, you know, where you would go, and you would hang out. But, we would go through and visit, and get right back out; because it was still pretty dangerous. There was Da Nang. There was several spots that we went to, a lot of time we spent was over in Japan. We would go over to Tokyo, Japan. Hang out over there. And that’s really where R & R, when you had some time of, they call it R & R, you go over. And we’d hop out of there and go over there. Get out of Vietnam.
[0:07:57]
DL: Do you remember arriving in Vietnam?
JS: Yes.
DL: What was it like?
JS: ….It was beautiful, but at the same time, it was- it had a horrible smell to it.
DL: Like….?
JS: A smell of burnt meat. Yeah, it had an aroma to it, that, you know, sewer, you know, an unbelievable smell, an unbelievable smell. Like, everything was raw over there, there was no latrines. You know, I mean there was nothing over there. Yeah, I remember the smell more than I remember the beauty of everything. Because everything was green, and it was so thick, you know, and it was like, “Man, just look at this place…” I mean it’s like looking at a hill, everything was green going up and around, and over everything. But underneath there, you could walk around. It was just amazing to me how beautiful it was.
DL: So, your job assignment was a medic.
JS: Yeah, a medic. Our job was to bring all the people that didn’t want to come home from the war that had been over there. There was, didn’t realize it, but there was a lot of people that were in the hospitals, and stuff like that. And they were pretty, um- I had to get used to that. You know, they always told us in training that you will throw up, you know, once you see somebody who’s dead, and all that. And believe me, I was going through a lot of that. But when I went in a hospital, the hospital that we were really- Where they were bringing everybody in from the war, it was getting to me psychologically. Because I was seeing people with no arms, no legs, just a body. [I] Saw a person with half their body, you know- any condition that you could imagine. People lost their eyesight, people with legs, but no feet; It was just- any kind of way. And most of these soldiers didn’t want to come home. They didn’t want their families to see them like that. They thought they were- you know, “Give me a gun, I’ll shoot myself, and get it over with.” And they just felt like they didn’t have anything to live for.
[0:10:9]
DL: You saw the aftermath of combat, so,
JS: Yes.
DL: Did you ever actually see any combat take place?
JS: Oh yeah. Yeah. Every now and then, we would get on a medivac, which is a big hospital airplane, -helicopter; and we‘d take off and go into some of the war zones that were still hot. I think the first time I went out, we took on fire. You know, somebody was shooting at us… And for the first time, you know, my brother said you can always know when you’re being shot at…. because the bullets will go by you so fast, it‘s like, a zinging sound. Zing! sss sss ssss. Like that. And, lucky for us, we didn’t get hit. They had some cobra helicopters around us, and they pretty much blew those guys… or, whatever they were or where it was coming from. It stopped. But, it was pretty scary, you know… He always said, you never know when you got shot. Because it was so fast, the bullet goes through and out of you, or you, you know; before you realize it you were just shot, three or four… who knows? But, yeah…
DL: Were there any casualties in your unit?
JS: Ah… No, we didn’t have any casualties until- One of the things my brother taught me, when I was in Vietnam, they called it short time. Short time means that you got about a month, thirty days, left. And people started focusing on leaving Vietnam. And, you start getting relaxed and for my brother, Earl, he told me that, “Do not relax until the day you’re on a plane and you’re gone from Vietnam,” because he said, when you relax, that’s when most of the people got killed. I didn’t know that, but most people got killed within their thirty day, or, in war, but a lot of people got killed because they had thirty days to go and they just started letting their [guard down]. But you could never let down your being fearful of the action over there. Because you can get shot. Snipers were just at random over there all the time. And my partner, we all had partners going over there, and he took off on a medivac with three days to go, and he didn’t have to go. And, you know, we were all like, “Man, you don’t need to go, send these new guys.” He said, “No, I want to do it one more time.” He was from Portland, -great guy- Hathaway. And, he was about as big as I was, and he took off on a medivac to go get some guys, rescue some guys and when they came back, I didn’t see him. It was like, “Okay, this isn’t good…” So, when the helicopter landed, two helicopters, everyone got off the helicopter he was on. They all looked at me and they were shaking their heads like this… And the other helicopters landed, and they brought him off in a stretcher, but he was gone. He had got hit… He had got shot by a sniper right in the head. Didn’t even see it coming. They said, they didn’t see him. It just killed him instantly. That was the biggest casualty for me. Because, you bring your partner home. Which means you had to take him home- we came in from Vietnam, into San Francisco. And, I was in charge of his body… His parents were there, but I had to present his body to his parents. I went up to Portland, and it was my first time being up to Portland, and we buried him. You know, yeah… He was a dear friend, always in my heart.
[0:13:42]
DL: Did you have any other friendships you made in Vietnam?
JS: Oh yeah, I had a lot of friends- Cleveland, New York, Dallas, I mean, there was a lot of people. That was a good thing about the armed services, you met a lot of people that you ordinarily would not meet in your life. Because everybody was all under the same boat, and house, soyou lived in a bunk, in a bunkhouse, could be two [hundred], or three hundred guys in it, and you learned all those guys’ names. And they all learn you[r name]. Because, pretty much, you know…. And we all became pretty close. Yeah, I had a lot, a lot, a lota’ friends. Even when I got back here, I had about six months to do. And I was stationed in Fort Dederick, Maryland. Fort Dederick, Maryland is where amtrack was produced at. It’s a U.S. Medical Research lab, where they inject monkeys, apes… It was unbelievable, it was like going from one thing to another, and matter of fact, it was just on T.V. where that guy got killed, you know, where that professor got killed. But, yeah, it was a research lab. It was a powerful research place. It was unbelievable when I was there. Everything was secret, we had to have pass codes to get in. A lot of animals became my friends then, I was a company clerk. But, I had my unit, that was over in a medical lab, so I was able to get back to where all the eggs and orangutans, it was cool. They were getting injected though.
DL: How did people entertain themselves, in Vietnam?
JS: In Vietnam, that’s where the dangerous part was, because people got real creative. And… drugs. Drugs were a recreation when you got off, because you wanted to escape. So, people started doing drugs… Heroin. Smoking it, shooting it. That’s the first time… my brother told me in ‘69, they were smoking some of the best marijuana over there, and they were smoking cocaine. I never knew nothing about cocaine. A lot of the drug habits there, here, in America now, came from the Vietnam era. Because all the guys who came back from Vietnam, brought what they called, recreational, you saying what they did?
DL: Yeah.
JS: …ended up coming to America. Ah… drink, play cards, everybody gambled, shoot craps, played poker. There wasn’t a whole lot to do. Listen to the radio. There was very little to do.
Yeah, you had to keep yourself occupied, pretty much.
[0:16:37]
DL: Did you have plenty of supplies with you? Like, did you wear them on your back? Or…
JS: Yeah, always had supplies, yeah. That wasn’t a problem back then, because we weren’t under attack or anything. So, most of the stuff, you know, we didn’t really get in the field that much and stuff, to pick people up. But, yeah, we were loaded with supplies.
DL: What was the food like there? Like did you have any natural Vietnam dishes.
JS: Ah, yeah. That’s what I told your Aunt Sue about, the first time I tasted cat. And rat.
DL: What was that like?
JS: It was like chicken.
DL: Really?
JS: Yeah. They cook it like a [bake?].
DL: Yeah.
JS: You never knew what you were eating. You know, over there… snake, lizard. I mean they tried some of the most weird [dishes], but that’s their dish. They had some swamp weed, that they made a soup out of. You got used to it, you know. American food was C-rationed, you know, they had a place [where] you eat. But, after a while, You got tired of that. And you go, and you eat.. If you eat anything, you’ll be eating Vietnam food. Vietnamese food. It wasn’t what I would call tasteful.
DL: Was there anything you did for good luck in the field, or anything?
JS: Probably the only thing I did for good luck, was I carried a Bible around with me. You know, my mother had always told me about being close to God. Probably my good luck piece was I always read a chapter in the Bible. A lot of King David, and Solomon, during that time. Just to do that. To keep my mind occupied. Good luck was just praying, that I stay alive everyday, because anything can happen. That’s another thing my brothers taught me, pray everyday. Because, you never know. You know, it was pretty scary once I got over there. About a month after I got over there, I was getting scared. You know, because I started seeing people coming in the hospital, injured, and I started seeing a lot…. I saw more dead, than I saw alive. And then it started, you know, having a real effect on me mentally, because I saw a lot of what I was seeing were guys that were gone, body bags, all that stuff… Pretty gruesome.
DL: Do you… How long, like… How often did you go on leave?
JS: Every thirty days, you were off, on thirty, off ten. We would, wherever we could catch a military hop plane. They were going to, you know, they were going to, Japan, Tokyo. You know, anywhere you’d want to go. Most of the time we were in Tokyo, you know, hanging out. Having a lot of fun. Because it was more of American, you know, the hotels, and the sceneries. And stuff like that. You know, yeah, pretty much, because, you wanted, believe me, to get away. So, when you were done with your ten days, you’d fly back in. You’d get off that plane, and you’d say, “I’m back.” Reality. It’s like… Can I change this scene? That’s when guys really started having an [psychological] affect on them. You know…
DL: Yeah…
JS: There was a lot of mental issues for a lot of people that… weren’t ready for it. For war. Including myself, I wasn’t ready for a war. For what the war brought to you. It was more mental stress than anything… That’s why a lot of people got killed. Because they either went kookoo, or shot themselves, or they just decided to do something haywire and got themselves killed. I mean, they were just wound up tight. And to get unwound, a lot of them did drugs, or drank. There was moonshine. Pretty much moonshine.
[0:20:43]
DL: Did you ever keep a personal journal of anything?
JS: No. No, I never… I never kept a personal journal. Because, at that time, it was just a matter of staying busy. There was a lot of guys who kept personal journals. They were writing the action of that day. You know… But, no. I didn’t. I didn’t feel the need for one.
DL: Do you have any photographs from Vietnam?
JS: Yeah… but, they all got caught in a fire in a barracks, when we got back here. Some guy was smoking in his bed. And the barracks got on fire. Nobody was around. Everybody was gone. You know, out in the field, doing something that day, and the barracks caught on fire. And where the fire was, I was right above it, so the fire went straight up and burned everything I had. A lot of good pictures, lot of good pictures… yeah.
DL: Did any unusual events happen, that you witnessed, or like were any pranks pulled on anyone?
JS: Oh, yeah.. That was the action of the day. Pulling a prank. From the time you woke up in the morning, to the time you went to bed; there was always a prank going on. I mean, it was like, you know, somebody turned the hot water off, so you’d get the cold water. You know, you’d go back to your bed, and there’s a frog, or snake, in it. I mean, it was always something that was going on. You’d open your foot locker, and it’d be full of water. All your clothes would be out of it, but it was like, you know… just one more thing to flip you over. There was always something going on. I mean, there was always a prank going on. You know, you’d jump in your bed, and the bed would fall apart. It was just… “Boom!” the bed would just collapse. “Boom!” I mean, it was many things… Oh God, your blanket would have a big hole in it. You know, yeah, it was all kinds of crazy stuff they did. That was probably the part that kept a lot of us human. You know, people would get upset, and you’d start laughing, and that was the only time you got to laugh, you know, when someone pulled a prank. You know…
DL: Yeah…
JS: Yeah… that was a human side of a lot of us, pulling pranks. Everybody pulled pranks. You wouldn’t believe it… sit down in a chair, and they’d yank the chair out from underneath you. Tray of food fall on your clothes. There was a lot of pranks going on. Yup, yup, yup… Tie your shoe strings together, and you wouldn’t know it. Yeah, every trick you could think of, it was going on over there. Put your helmet on, it’s full of mud, or swamp water or something. You didn’t know what happened. Yeah, there was always a prank.
[0:23:46]
DL: So, um… how much field time did you get, as a medic. Or were you more based in camps. Or…?
JS: Field time? Very little. A lot in, a whole lot in stationary hospitals. What they called them, big hospitals. The whole thing about Vietnam, was they had field hospitals. And field hospitals were shut down and moved to what they called great big hospitals, where you know, they drag everybody in; and we were at the location of the stationary hospital where they were bringing everybody in from everywhere. I got to go to a field hospital. We worked from a field hospital, a couple of times. The job was to close that field hospital down and bring everybody to the stationary hospital. And we started bringing all these people in, and you’d start looking around like, “Oh… man, look at this place…” I mean, really, really, really, really it was like what are over here for? That’s what started bothering me the most, like, why are we having this war? You see young people, older people, doctors, lawyers, you know; just ordinary people just messed up. You said, “Over what?” I started questioning myself, the Colonel told me, you will. He said there is no answer. And I thought, after Vietnam we would never ever be in another war. What we learned from Vietnam was that, the only thing that happened when we went into another person’s country, is that we don’t [win.] There’s no way we can win a war on somebody else’s turf. You know, that war was never winnable because Vietnam was a place where we didn’t know it. We had no jungle experience. It was just, it was just a beautiful place, [with] stink. But it was a place, like around here, where, if you had to run around and lose somebody, you could probably lose them. But, in in Vietnam, those people knew their jungle, and they would sit in a spot, for weeks. Until we came through there, and they’d ambush us. That’s how, how, you know, they worked. Hide in trees. They knew all the tricks of the trade. I mean, my older brother, Earl, I asked him, because I knew he had gotten messed up over there, he said, one of the tricks was, when I’d get in a helicopter, I would always make sure the helicopter flew way above the trees. Because the whole thing about helicop- you know, trees was, they were beautiful. The wind would be blowing. Well, they would tie ropes, that you couldn’t see. And grenades were attached to them. So, if you flew low enough, they’d pull, [or] yank, the string, and all the grenades would just go off. “Boom!” and it would hit the helicopter. I mean, they were real… people thought that they were just, you know, these folks were very highly intelligent about how to fight war. We, even with the best equipment… it was just, not a good thing. Not a good thing…
[0:26:39]
DL: Did you have any interactions with Vietnamese people?
JS: Yes. Yes… A lot were in our camp. A lot of them, you know, kids. At some point, we were helping- we were constantly helping kids. Adults. You know, there was all kinds of disease going on over there. You know, we constantly [were] taking shots. You know, you constantly had to get a shot every thirty days. For who knows, you know. They were giving us… Back then, they were giving you air gun shots. You’d step up, and just, Boosh! Shoot three shots in you at one time, to keep you from getting sick. But yeah, we were constantly taking care of a lot of people over there for sickness. You know, plus a lot of them, were getting injured from just being around the war. Victims of the war, you know. Somebody shoots up a campsite, guess what; you’re hitting innocent people. So yeah, interactions with them was pretty cool. [I] couldn’t learn the language, because I wasn’t over there for a long time, but they- It was amazing how quick they could pick up our language up, before we could pick their language up.
DL: Were they thankful? Or were they more hostile towards you..
JS: Mostly thankful. You know, because like I said, here in America we’ve never had the threat of war on our land. These folks were very thankful that someone was saving their lives. That’s the way they looked at it. Even though they were losing their families, and stuff like that. But, yeah, they were very thankful. Every now and then, you’d get a rotten egg, sneak in. Try and blow something up. You know, they were pretty tenacious. I mean, they were determined. I mean, it’s just like what you see over in Iraq. Insurgents, you know, blowing up those mines. I mean, there was a lot of those over there. Land mines. There was people like that, you know. They were pretty determined to get into the base, and do damage, but they couldn’t. I mean, over there, it was pretty secluded, because we had fence, and the fence were electrically charged. And so, to get in, you had to come through the main gate. They stripped everything off of you. It was pretty hard to get in there. You went through a pretty good check. You know, but, yeah… yup.
[0:29:06]
DL: Do you recall the day your service ended?
JS: Yeah. It was like an ordinary day. I thought it going to be something special. You know, yeah… it was like, just an ordinary day. That day came, it was on a Friday. Really, when you’re getting out of the service, you really start preparing two weeks prior, because you have to start checking out, signing your name on all kinds of papers. They do a physical on you for three days. You know, because they want to make sure you didn’t have…. You know, you had to turn in all your gear, everything you own and posses that the army, you know..
DL: Yeah.
JS: Would take. Your uniform, you had to turn it all in back then. They let you keep a set of dress and the green khakis, and they had a jacket. But other than that, everything had to be turned back in. The boots, you kept the boots. But everything else… You spent about two weeks going through a whole, like, you came in with your hair cut, getting the boots and everything. Well, you go right back out, the same way. You know, turning everything back in. But, it was an ordinary day. I loaded my car up with my duffel bag and… it was really sad, leaving a lot of my friends. Because a lot of them had re-up (?) You know, because the war was over with, and they were paying good money, a lot of my real closest friends spent their careers in armed services.
[0:30:37]
DL: So, what did you do in the days, and weeks afterwards, when you got back from Vietnam?
JS: I was stationed in Fort Dederick, Maryland. I became a company clerk. A company clerk is a, like the person who ran all the duty rosters and do that for the generals and stuff. It was pretty cool when I got back. I was right outside D.C. And my school that I went to was in Pennsylvania, so I knew a lot of that area over there. And had a lot of friends, that were living in that area. So, [I] hung out in D.C., Baltimore, [I] know Baltimore… New York. You know, Philly, you know. It was like traveling around, seeing a lot of people. Because, we had weekends [free]. It was like a regular job. You know, you work Monday through Fridays, and then you had the weekends off. Unless you had, you know, duty roster, you had to do something on duty. Yeah, you know… but I never had weekend duties. Sort of like an ordinary job, there. It was just ordinary then, just dealing with people, who [were] telling war stories. You know… A good friend of mine, his name is Wilson. He was a cook. Used to always tell me that he had a purple heart. Now, mind you, Wilson was a cook. Crazier than a bed bug. I mean, really. Loony. He was the first person that got me... I never did drugs until I came back here to the States. And he was the one who first got me to try it. He used to always… We were real close and I started understanding, he was from Chicago. The day when I left, you know, he cried, and said,
“Man, I’m gonna’ miss you Joe.”
I said, “Man, I’m not gonna’ be that far away.”
He said, “Man, I can’t handle it.”
I said, “What do you mean you can’t handle it?”
He said, “Man, you’re a part of my life, and…”
And, this time of my life…. Um… So, you know I left, and about two weeks later I got a call from Fort Dederick, saying you need to get in touch with the [unintelligible]. And I was like, What?! I called the number… Wilson went off. He came on, he came on the fort, with an M16. And a lot of my friends were still there and they were all in the cafeteria that morning. And he shot his boss, which was the Headmaster cook, and they said, he… Wilson shot him like he was, you know… They were way out there. And he shot both of the cooks, killed both of them. He went down to the first Sergeant office, and turned himself in. First Sergeant barricaded himself in the room. Because, nobody had guns. And… What we found out later on, he had shot his wife. Shot his mother in law. And, killed his Father. So, like five people got killed that day. And, he was asking for me, it was pretty dramatic for me; because I was like, “Man, how do I talk to a guy that just killed five people…” The Wilson I knew would’ve killed five people, but yeah… I sent quite a bit of time. Finally, went out there for his hearing. And, we were all sitting there, it was a lot of us. And, pretty much everybody was there, and, Wilson came out and all of us saw him. He saw me, I gave him a hug, and stuff. Then they started talking about his war record. Well, he didn’t have a Purple Heart, he had three Purple Hearts. We were all like, “He wasn’t lying! He was telling the truth!” He had three Purple Hearts when he was over in Vietnam. He used to tell us; because cooks were always behind [front lines]. He said, every time he ended up in a unit, and they went out, They would get attacked. And, two times, his unit got caught behind a line, he would sneak out and kill to get back, and go them rescued, both times. And then, the third one, he rescued a guy. Saved a guy’s life. But yeah, he ended up right now, to this day, he’s still in a mental hospital. He’s much better, but he’s, you know, he’s still in a mental hospital… And I was like, I get back here to the states, and this guy kills five people? But yeah, Wilson was his name… good friend. Good friend, but he was crazy. I felt sorry for him though. Yeah, I think he’s- I think he may be out. But, I haven’t heard from anybody, he may be out. Yeah… yeah. Other than that, living an ordinary life, Didn’t want to go back in the service. They tried to talk me into it, they said, “Joe, [unintelligible]” And I told them No. I was pretty determined to get out of the service; and I wanted to get away from that part of my life. It was like a chapter in my life where I had to do it, and once I’d done it, like, I went to Pine Forge, and everything else in my life, the chapter is over with, let’s end it, close the book, and I’m moving on. Because they really wanted me to say. They offered me good money, but I said, “Nope, I’m ready to get on with my real life.”
[0:35:51]
DL: Did you, yourself, receive any metals, or…?
JS: No. No, no, no, no… nope. Won a lot of trophies playing basketball, baseball, you know; I was a sport jock then. But, that was a big thing in the armed forces. They all played each other, in baseball, softball, hardball, basketball, you know; it was very competitive. Very competitive. That was the big thing, a lot of sports. So, we won a lot, you know… baseball. I’ll be playing with Colonels, Captains, and all the guys. Because, the units were made up into teams, it didn’t make a difference who was on the team. That’s where you can probably get even with the officers. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah; they were- everybody had to drop their ranks out there. And when you’re on the field, everybody was a player. So, football, everybody played football. It was full body contact.
DL: Yeah.
JS: And man… I played flag football, but man, it was still body contact, you know, it was ugly. Yeah, that was pretty big thing over there, now too, flag football. It wasn’t a big thing, it didn’t have a field. We had a makeshift field, but a lot of people didn’t do that. [Some] played kickball. Had a little raggedy hoop, where we shot basketball. It was all dust. But yeah, sports was always around, I remember that… Somebody always had something made up to shoot basketball with, or play- make a stick, play baseball. Find a ball, some kind of ball.
DL: Like?
JS: One guy made a rubber band ball. Full of rubber bands. And that was the ball. Everybody kept up with it too. Nobody lost that ball, the whole time I was over there in Vietnam. Because it was the only ball. It was the only ball.
DL: How big was it?
JS: It was a pretty good size. As big as a softball, but they shot basketball with it. So it was the “multiball”. Play football with it. You know, yeah. Every time in the evening- he worked in the postal. He was a mail man. So, he’d take all the rubber bands and add to it you know,
DL: Yeah.
JS: Every time they’d break, he’d add some more. To keep it a good size.
[0:38:00]
DL: So, after your military record, did you go back to school, or did you go to a job?
JS: Ah… Yeah. I came back home and enrolled into school. Did a little part time work. Entered in a business college. Finished after two years. Got a job. Then, started working. Pretty much.
Until my life right now. Yeah, never once looked back, you know. Just, just worked. Kept up with everything, all my friends, and stuff like that. Yeah.
DL: Was your education supported by the G.I. Bill?
JS: Yes. Yeah, the bill bought my house, the G.I. Bill. The house I’m living in now, was purchased of the G.I. FHA. Yeah, I got a lot of benefits out of that. You know. Yeah education, all of that, was pretty cool, getting out of school. Yeah.
DL: Did you ever join a Veterans Organization?
JS: I was a member of the National Veteran Organization for a minute, only because, you know, I was just doing it, just to find out what was going on. But after a while, it pretty much played out of my life. I didn’t do anything else after that.
DL: Do you still maintain friendships that you made in Vietnam?
JS: Yeah. I haven’t talked to…. Oh… There are two guys. One in Florida. One in New York. That we talk, at least once a year. You know, we still have each other’s phone numbers. And, we talk. Everybody… Just calling up and asking how they’re doing. Both are married, got a family. One- both of them just got out of the service. Maybe, about two or three years ago, they spent their career. So, their life, you know, they, you know, yeah…
[0:40:01]
DL: Did you military experience ever influence your thinking about war, or the military in general?
JS: Yes. I felt, after Vietnam, that there shouldn’t be able to be another war. That people should be able to sit down and talk. You know. No matter how bad it can get. It’s just, when you see the end result, like [unintelligible], and a lot of my friends didn’t come back. They, to me, said they died for honor and dignity, and all that. But to me, the honor was senseless. You know, because it was we, if you went to war, you don’t have a clue. You have no idea about those people up there making decisions about, you know, things that have no bearing on you. I think if they brought it down on our level, we could’ve ended that war, by sitting down with these guys, “Come on man..”
DL: Yeah.
JS: “C’mon man, why are we running around killing each other? You know, can’t we just get along?” A lot of people felt that during the war, you know. They didn’t have a clue why they were over there. All they knew is that we were fighting a war. Who were we fighting? Never knew. Gave their life up. Not like they gave their life up senseless[ly]. But, I always felt that they gave their life up for something that two people decided. “Alright, we’re gonna’ start a war.”
And it was- it was to save some lives, North Vietnam against South Vietnam, they were into it. But we were in a situation where we could’ve put a dividing line, and said, “Hold on, y’all” And that’s what ended up happening over there. You know, there’s a big line that divides us. But now it’s at a point where they all cross each other’s borders and they’re becoming real good friends.
[0:41:47]
DL: Did your service or experience affect any major life decisions? Like your professions? Because you’ve been the past President of the American Red Cross board and the Washington Township legal services here in Indianapolis. So, does all of this volunteering and work with the needy stem from your war experience at all?
JS: It had a bearing on it. It let me know that everybody is human. That everybody needs assistance, no matter what. I would say the war opened my eyes to a lot of things. You know, in general. I was still about nineteen. So you know, when I came back home, I was basically looking at a lot of things I had never looked at before. You know, and… Like, back in America. I looked at America a little differently than what I did… I was more open about the big picture than the small picture about me. Which helped me in life, period. Because I was able to always, from what I learned in Vietnam, was about always looking at the big pictures, you know, not looking at small picture. The small picture will get you killed. The big picture will keep you alive. And, so I brought that home with me. It helps me right now… I’m a big picture guy. I always like to look at the big picture, rather than the small picture.
[0:43:28]
DL: Is there anything you would like to add? Extra stories, or…?
JS: No… I think the biggest story is that I’m alive. Like I said, I interviewed my brother in story core (?). And, it was pretty sad for me to interview him, because…. One thing I left with from that interview was that, he was a lot like me, in that he, with God inside, knew who he was. Even though he’s a heroin addict, [unintelligible] everyday, different day… But, for me I always keep my feet on the ground, I learned a lot of that from my brother. He always told me to keep my feet on the ground. Look at the big picture. That’s the only thing that kept me alive. That’s pretty much it.
DL: Great… Thanks for your time. For taking this… [interview]
JS: You’re welcome.
DL: Great, Thank you.
[0:44:33]
