[00:00:03]
Today is October 1, 2011. I am Daniel Gimeno and I am interviewing Abe J. Bucksner at 5500, West 123 Street, Overland Park, Kansas. Mr. Bucksner is my great uncle. He is ninety years old and was born on August 7, 1921, Mr. Bucksner served in World War 2. He was in the Eighth Air Corps Fifty-Second Fighter Group and held the following rank: Corporal.
[00:00:42]
DJG: So, Where were you living at the time?
AJB: When I enlisted I was living in Kansas City, Missouri.
DJG: Okay.
[00:00:53]
DJG: And why did you join the army?
AJB: Actually joined, I enlisted, with five other friends because they were going in, and I didn’t want to be left out, so I enlisted.
[00:01:06]
DJG: Why did you pick the service branch you joined?
AJB: With the group that I joined with, we were all wanted to go into the Air Corps, that’s all, just Air Corps.
[00:01:29]
DJG: Can you recall your first days in your service?
AJB: First¬¬¬—
DJG: First days.
AJB: —of service.
DJG: Yeah, what was it like during those first days?
AJB: Don’t recall a direct date, but I was twenty years old so you can figure it out from there, I was twenty years old when I enlisted.
DJG: I think it means, what was it like in the first few days.
AJB: The only dates that I really remember, Danny, is that I turned twenty-one the day that I left the United States to go to England, so that was whatever date that was.
[00:02:43]
DJG: And how was your boot camp and training experience in the army?
AJB: What was the third questions, what was what?
DJG: What was your training experience for the army like?
AJB: Oh, it was interesting and difficult in some cases. We did training here in the St. Louis area, which is where we went from Kansas City, and we did some training there. Then we went west I forgot the state but we did training there. Came back to the East Coast and then left to go overseas from there. That’s about all. I should’ve looked up this stuff. One of the problems I
have, that I might’ve mentioned is that the moving around and coming to this place, this stuff that I had, filed and files with what happened have not [been] available to me right now, so I’ll have to rely on my memory.
DJG: Okay.
[00:03:58]
DJG: Where exactly did you go in your first campaigns and places in World War 2?
AJB: I’d suppose you’d call it the campaign when we left Kansas, left the East Coast by boat and went to England. That was the first place that was part of a campaign situation at the beginning.
[00:04:24]
DJG: What did you do in England?
AJB: We did more training in England and going into the air force we had situations that had to do with airplanes and places we were in England. I had a situation that might be interesting as far as this concern. I went to England and we lived in a no, I recall that episode happened in North Africa, but the first place we went, but that didn’t happen in England I’m sorry. We stayed there, and we were in a town called Biggin Hill, which was not far from London, and were able to spend one day, in London, and that was about all the experience we had in England and practices and things, and things like that. What else?
[00:05:57]
DJG: What did you do in Tunisia, in North Africa?
AJB: What we do there? We arrived in North Africa, by ship, and we were the second group to arrive. There was a group that preceded us into North Africa to start the campaign there, and we actually went into North Africa carrying rifles with the idea that it was a possibility we could run into situation where we have to use guns. We did a quite a bit of marching when we got to
North Africa. Then we finally came to a town and we were stationed in a hotel. They put us in a hotel and this again was test periods. We had airplanes and available that we work with the pilots and airplanes. This is where, I can’t remember the city, that the name of the city where we lived, but was in a hotel and we would get together in the evening and play cards cause we didn’t have anything else to, necessarily to do. One day I was sitting there, with a group, playing cards and my brother, who I thought was in the United States had enlisted and walked in with the idea that he found out that one of the trucks coming from town was my outfit. So, he just got on a truck, and followed it in, and we were together for some time. I thought that was an interesting article, that my brother came and we were together and I was able keep in track of him and touch with him, and all through the North Africa situation. He had a different company but I could contact him. I thought that was an interesting article.
[00:08:10]
DJG: What kind of work did you do and your brother do?
AJB: The work I actually did as an ordinance person in the Air Corps, is we worked with ammunition and guns and made sure the guns were in good shape, and we were able to furnish the ammunition, and in those early days we didn’t have to do much, because there wasn’t any fighting between Americans and the Germans at that point until we started going further west and started, sent airplanes, we were [stated?] at the units and when the airplanes were listed to leave that’s when we were available to make sure the ordinance were there and as the war proceeded and as the Americans moved towards the west towards the, was it, England was done in the other war, the other side, that’s when moved in and we did a quite a bit of moving from one location to the next and that was about it.
[00:09:33]
DJG: What kind of moving did you do between different locations?
AJB: We used a truck, by truck, we, long way, did a flight from England to North Africa, we flew several places, but we continued to follow them, soldiers as they proceeded west, by truck a
we’d spend nights at locations and that was about it. I had one experience I might mention this
part of the, of the way I lived there and what I did, was near the end of the North Africa part of the war, we had friends of course, and I had a special friend that lived in New York and we talked about going towards the front of the war and trying to find things that we could call, use as souvenirs. So we hitchhiked towards the fighting area and, [before we] got to any German part we ran into a situation, where we had, where they had bombers and planes that were bombers and had a group there. We stopped and these were English people, English soldiers with
their organizations. So we stopped and talked to them and discussed there situation which disturbs ours and they said that we were going up, shoot the guns right a where’s and if you like we’ll let you shoot them, and we thought wonderful and they showed us where the guns, and we sat on them in seats, because these were big guns and so, we each sat on a different gun seat and they would signal, we’d pull a lever, and boom. We shot these huge cannons and we thought that was pretty interesting. After that we were standing around talking and pretty soon we noticed that the English soldiers were dropping to the ground and we couldn’t understand why they would be doing something like that. Very shortly we were told, they were shooting back at us and we better not be here or be careful where we’re at, so friend and I said, that’s interesting, let’s get out of here. So we did, we left and went back to our organization and was an interesting thing that happened to us at this part of the war, which was, spent a lot of time just doing nothing
particular, so this was an interesting item, and we got away from there and went back to our organization and we eventually wound up with some souvenirs, but that was an experience with the big guns, and as we moved towards the west with, we went to Tunisia and then we went to, well Tunisia was the last place that we lived when the war ended in North Africa, a German surrender, that was the end of that particular part of the war. We were stationed in Tunis, which is kind of a, you know it’s a town near the ocean and we were able to, to have, well, swim and stuff so, then the war ended, and, some of the stuff the German soldiers as prisoners were sent there, Tunis and they came by truck to Tunis, and from Tunis, the soldiers that surrendered were put on ships and sent back to the United States. Later, when I left Italy on my trip back to the United States I happened to run into the, saw some of these German soldiers working in the United States, usually as restaurant employees and they were as free as anybody, so I thought that was interesting, and that was my experience. One of the experiences that I had, from North Africa we went north and we went stationed in Italy and were, we went, kept going south to the bigger cities and we did spend a day or two in Rome and on, and that was the main thing, we didn’t do any fighting, I think we did have one experience where we relocate somewhere and there were some bomb reports where we were and down in the mountains he said and that was pretty much all of our actual war experience, there we went, to Italy, we moved up north to Italy, first of all I thought it was an unusual experience we went to the southern part of Italy which is, what was the name of the, that area of Italy, Sicily! Okay, Sicily was interesting. Sicily was a part of Italy, however it was like a poor part, and the people living there, were very unhappy and come to find out and discussing and talking, that it was mostly Sicilians that came to the United States. It wasn’t as many Italians, although they were considered Italians, they are Sicilians and they were what I consider the poor Italians and I thought that was interesting experience to realize that the people that were migrating from Italy area to the United States were mostly Sicilians and to discuss that here and talk about it what most people would say that the Italians that live in Kansas City for instance were mostly Sicilians, and I thought that was very interesting. So in Italy we, I had a situation where I was sent back to the United States supposedly on a furlough for thirty days and I got back to the United States and I was sent to
Colorado and Colorado was also an air-force situation that I worked in an office while I was there and that was part of my experiences as working back here in the United States in February and the war was over.
[00:18:08]
DJG: So exactly what is a furlough?
AJB: Yes, this was supposed to be furlough, and because the war ended in Europe, then they changed it to, you’re going to stay here until it’s, released and then the wars over.
[00:18:31]
DJG: What do you remember from when the North Africa war ended?
AJB: Well when the, that’s when the war ended between, of course the English were fighting them on the ground pretty well from the west, but, as air force we had fighter planes and we sent them out on missions and, their job was to protect the bomber we had, an organization, we had pilots, which of course we youngsters, they had been trained to fly these airplanes, we were one of the beginning groups that started using the P-51’s and they were, superior to what we had previous and they did a good job of protecting the, but we did lose some, I mean some hoops went out and maybe out of 12 maybe a couple, three didn’t come back so, we were in a war because, we could tell that we lost pilots and so that, was pretty much part of it, it was five incidents and the idea was that we started to win with Africa and moved across and we were there when they surrendered, and as I said we sent a group of soldiers, Italian soldiers, no German soldiers by boat to the United States and they stayed here when the war was over, so that, that was about it.
[00:20:31]
DJG: Do you remember any of the big air battles, or dogfights from the pilots?
AJB: You know we, we lived in the same area with the pilots, but they sort of had a superior situation and, we didn’t have too much, interchange with the pilots, but they were we would talk to them we knew what was going on but that was about it, our job was to see that the planes were in good shape and ready to fly, but the pilots were in a sort of a situations all their own, they had their own food situation and all, that’s about all I know and that’s, living with the pilots, and they sort of lived in a section of their own you know, they were, and we had, we had to give them, wasn’t every day but how often they went out to fly and to, and they had a situation where they might get killed and might get returned so they had a different situation then the rest of us who just did all the work to see that planes ready to fly and that’s about all the job was, I had one incident I might mention, I had a problem that I had to go to the hospital, I had a bad tooth, and I had some work done on that and I was in the hospital for a couple, 3 days and I don’t recall exactly but the situation turned out to be that they were, soldiers of the, the actual soldiers were short of men and so they came to the hospitals looking for those of us that they could possibly
join into the and send on out to the actual fighting area and I happened to be in the hospital, I
wasn’t really sick too bad so I left the hospital without saying anything, and went back to my organization, nobody setting any problems, was just an item that I ran into, that I could’ve wounded being in the.
[Phone rings and Mr. Bucksner has an unrelated conversation]
AJB: So, that enough or do you need some more information?
DJG: I’ll need a little bit more.
AJB: Okay.
[00:23:34]
DJG: So what were the hospitals in Tunisia like?
AJB: What was that again?
DJG: What were the hospitals in Tunis like?
AJB: Oh, oh the hospitals, they, they had good doctors and nurses and I was fortunate that I stayed healthy pretty much all through the whole situation, I had one interesting item I might add to that, of the six of us that enlisted, they all tried to get, become pilots, they had to sign up and go to school and so on to become pilots, of the four of us we had to take physicals to enlist as pilots, because of my eye situation, I couldn’t pass, there were two that actually passed and left us to actually become pilots and we didn’t see them any more, and there finally worked down, there were four of us left, there was one other that, he and I was very friendly, we stayed together all through the war, we lived in the same places and so on, but that was the situation with the six of us, we didn’t, we enlisted together and we were together for certainly the time, we started so that was, that was mainly the thing that, the two of us stayed together all through, the other two went to different organizations, and the other two that went to try out to be pilots they didn’t make it because, they didn’t wind up in war, the flying situation and we were, and that was it, what else?
[00:25:50]
DJG: So did you keep in touch with the two that went to be pilots or did they die in action?
AJB: I don’t think we kept in touch with them all through the, we got word from other soldiers that we knew that were there, but they left us and they were in a situation in the war, and as of
right know in this situation, out of the six of us there were two left, the rest are gone, he’s not living here but he’s alive and I made it up too far and I don’t know what’ll happen, and so that, the war paid. I might mention I am a VA veteran, I signed up and I get medicine through the VA and they just send it to me, I just have to call them and tell them I need this particular item and they send it to me, I do pay, but it’s a lot less then if I was not in a VA situation and, they have some other items that are for the veterans that I take advantage of, but I am a VA. What else do they want to know?
[00:27:32]
DJG: Would you say that your position in the military was fairly safe?
AJB: Was, my position was what?
DJG: Fairly safe?
AJB: Fairly safe yes, but much, much safer than the rest, because the ones that fought and then the pilots and so on, I know, there was one incident that I recall in England when we were there that we were bombed and as you follow the information, England had a lot of bombing while, and situations so we didn’t have a lot, but there was some of where we were told you know, outside of that we had no problems.
[00:28:26]
DJG: Was there like a lack of supplies in Tunis or was it mainly sort of?
AJB: I don’t think there was a, I think supplies were, some of the incidents were, took a little more time than they should, but eventually they came up with something, pretty much everything you needed.
[00:28:54]
DJG: What was the food like there?
AJB: The food was just fair, I mean there were some things I didn’t like, but food was available and we didn’t do much complaining, but was fair that’s all I can say about the food.
[00:29:22]
DJG: Would you ever, like, prank other people or pull jokes?
AJB: Do what?
DJG: Like, joke with other people or prank them.
AJB: Oh yeah, we did all sorts of things like that, jokes and we, we did some interchange with the civilian people in our situation but not too much we still, all through the time we were in, were given passes to go to towns just like they did and so we did have some interchange with people who lived in the area, of course we didn’t have a, we weren’t able to talk the language, but we got along with them, Italians especially say, Italy was big part of the time and so we did have some interchange with them but not too much because of the language they said, so.
[00:30:28]
DJG: What were the people in Italy like?
AJB: Well, just like any other place, the situation, like Sicily was kind of a poor situation and lived fairly poorly when you get to, got to the big city it was clearer, and there was part of Italy where, where you lived and they had rivers that ran through the city and so you took boats and things like that and we could do pretty much anything that what we called “the civilians” could do, we could, we had we did quite a bit of living all through it, all through the North Africa
campaign and the Italy and something like that. We lived in tents and I can recall one situation where we had a heavy rain and the inside of our tent got pretty well soaked but nothing very dangerous that’s all.
[00:31:36]
DJG: What were the tents like?
AJB: The tents were big enough to hold about six of us, we set them up and put our beds in there and there was fairly decent, we lived just like any other, you know we got up in the morning, had things to do, and at the end, that’s all, we and as I said we do get passes like we did while we were, in here that. I had one situation that I thought was interesting in North Africa, ran into some soldiers from Israel, now these soldiers were from Israel, but they were under the English situation, but we were able to talk to them and heard about things that are going on there, what was happening in Israel and things like that, so that was an interesting part of the time we were over there. What else?
[00:32:48]
DJG: Did they say much about the situation of Israel, or?
AJB: Well, they talked about it, what was going on there, the fighting they were involved in and so on and told us about some of the cities and how they were being handled and being Jewish we were of considerable interest, but they had the say, so that was one of the incidents, about the time I was in.
[00:33:24]
DJG: Do you remember being Jewish making any difference in the army?
AJB: There were some problems and Semitism, but not much and of course we sort of were
friends together and so on and I was going to bring this up, an item, I don’t know if its, makes a difference there was a friend that I was with and lived with in Italy and so on that was from Chicago and he was a salesperson and we used to play cards, and gamble a lot and he was involved in taking care of the money situation. Anyway, we kept close together and when we got out of the army we kept in touch, he was a salesperson and he sold lamps, okay, and he would come into Kansas City and we go out for dinner and stuff and he gave me these two lamps, and these two lamps, you have to realize, that when we got in the army they must be some around fifty or sixty years old or whenever the war ended is when I got these two lamps, but I think that’s interesting, we’ve moved probably six or eight times and would always make sure we kept these lamps, so that’s an item. He and I were good friends, so you know things like,
I did talk to some...one of the out persons in my outfit after the war, I got a phone call, they were having some sort of a meeting and so on, but that’s about it, and that’s about all the stories I have.
[00:35:40]
DJG: Did being in war change you a lot from before going into?
AJB: Oh yeah, first of all, the length of time which you were in, you lost that time as far as what you were planning doing, so there was a creative problem, a situation as far as your life was concerned, I was fortunate not to have any physical problems, so that’s about it. What else?
[00:36:28]
DJG: Did you have an education after you ended your service?
AJB: We did some training, but not normal, regular education and things, there were opportunities that were set up for people especially after the war, we were able to enroll in, as
you recall, there was a situation where they gave you opportunities to education and colleges and so on. If you recall, there was a part of a, what was the name of the program that they, that we had after the war? That, we allowed, were able to go to college and think like that any army, so there was that. I didn’t take advantage, I should’ve but I didn’t.
[00:37:32]
DJG: So you didn’t have any formal education after the war?
AJB: No, no this, before I'd gone in I worked in the auto-parts, that was my trade if you will. When I came out, a friend of mine who was married decided to go out for a job and I wasn’t particularly interested, but I did go with him to apply, when he went to apply for a job and the place where we applied didn’t offer him a job but did offer me one, so that’s what happened and from then on I worked mainly in auto-parts.
[00:38:16]
DJG: So you were a mechanic?
AJB: I was what?
DJG: A mechanic.
AJB: Oh, no, no, auto part, I sold the parts, I ordered and sold them, and I wasn’t a mechanic at all. In fact when I first went into it I didn’t know what the items were, but I finally learned, and that was what I did the rest of my life pretty much. In fact, part of it’s when I had my very own auto-parts place. So that’s about it, until I got here. What else Dan? I don’t know if this sounds very interesting or not, Carlos...
[00:39:07]
DJG: Did you go to any reunions for the soldiers?
AJB: Do what now?
DJG: Go to a reunion?
AJB: A region?
DJG: A reunion?
AJB: Oh, I didn’t go to any reunions.
[00:39:26]
DJG: Do you have any photographs of the people?
AJB: Do I have?
DJG: Yeah.
AJB: Yeah, I do.
[00:39:36]
DJG: Who are in them?
AJB: See if I, [gets out of chair].
DJG: Would you like some help?
AJB: See that’s what you have to do, let me see if I can find any. See the, that’s my oldest son and his wife; they married very late and got two little kids. Now where the hell are all my pictures, I’ve got hundreds of them, lets see...
DJG: I think I see some back here.
AJB: Where? Well, yeah those are, that’s my, that’s me when I enlisted, that’s what I looked like, that’s my wife’s pictures, she’s passed away, and that’s my wife and me and two kids at a wedding in Chicago years ago, so, I did have, I did have a bunch of the army pictures and if I run across them I'll send them to you.
[00:41:22]
DJG: Did the army allow you to keep the pictures?
AJB: The army liked pictures, yes, I do have, especially because of the job I had and the period in North Africa, in the office, these pictures were taken, of the soldiers, and I was able to copy, and I had copies to give to some of the officers, so I've got a whole stack of them, pictures of soldiers, I'll see if I can remember where I put them, that’s my problem Danny, that’s why I, you know I was hesitant, as far as doing this, and I hope it’s something that’s useful because I think it’s an important thing but my memory is not too good.
DJG: Oh no, you’ve been very helpful.
AJB: Well, thanks, I appreciate that Danny.
[Off the record material from 42:24 until 44:20]
[After my father and Mr.Bucksner talk family material, Mr.Bucksner discussed articles from the present.]
[00:44:20]
AJB: I use my computer quite a bit Danny, like I said I keep watching for information on my computer on my television about the new health care situation and I don’t know if it amounts to anything, but I might mention the fact that, in the health care situation many years ago I joined, was it, the board of directors of an osteopathic hospital here in the Kansas City area and as time went by I was in the board for about twenty years and I eventually was chairman of the board and then the board of our hospital joined with Health-Midwest which was a group of hospitals and I was on their board for three years. So I try my best to sort of use any analogy I can as far as the health care situation here in Kansas City and this new health care program that they’ve come up with, I think is a good idea that the republicans were against, anyway that’s, I try to do as much as I can. So that’s about it, I can’t think of any other.
DJG: I guess there’s another question.
[00:46:06]
DJG: Did you keep a diary or a journal?
AJB: Nope.
DJG: Okay.
AJB: I don’t, not too interesting, keeping a diary for an old man like me. What else do they want to know?
[00:46:34]
DJG: You’ve pretty much rapped it up, is there anything else you would like to add that we didn’t cover in the interview?
AJB: No, I can’t think of anything else, I thought it was interesting how the two lamps I thought I’d mention those, if you want to mention my R.O.M.E.O situation, there are over a hundred members that probably ninety percent of them are World War Two veterans.
DJG: Explain R.O.M.E.O. some more.
AJB: What that?
DJG: Explain R.O.M.E.O. a bit more.
AJB: Okay, R.O.M.E.O.’s an organization that started a few years ago and the R.O.M.E.O., r-o-m-e-o stands for, retired old men eating out. Meeting weekly with a speaker and discussing and having a lunch every Friday and discussing a lot of information we had people talk to us about what’s happening in Europe now and things like that. That pretty much, one of my extra activities that’s about it and the fact that I can’t drive anymore have to use a walked. I'm not very healthy anymore, that’s about it. Danny, you know I'm pretty fortunate, I've been to doctors they’ve said my health at my age is in good shape, like my heart, my lungs and things like that so I’m pretty fortunate, but I do as much as I can and that’s all, and I do volunteer furnishing information about the new health care and one of the hospitals here, if they think its a good Article, so I think that’s important
[00:48:42]
DJG: Do you know any other veterans that you keep in contact with?
AJB: Veterans in close contact, is that the question?
DJG: Veterans that you keep in touch with.
AJB: Oh, occasionally I hear from my outfit, but not very often, pretty much just the ones that
are here local, nobody in the local organization that was in the same outfit I was in, although there are many of them of those that are R.O.M.E.O’s that are, that are different, several of them was in the war, used to be in Japan and so on, that’s about it, Danny.
[00:49:28]
DJG: Does R.O.M.E.O. have a website or telephone number for future students to interview and would they be willing to?
AJB: Oh you want to ask somebody a question because there are some other people that...
DJG: No, just for future students and more stories, do you think the people from R.O.M.E.O. would be interested in being interviewed?
AJB: Well, I could check with them, I mean, I was thinking when we talked that there should be somebody there that you’d be interested in interviewing, especially if I couldn’t do it, so what you want to do then is you want to interview.
DJG: No, I want to, because my teacher, she thought, she asked me if I could ask you if had¬—
AJB:—friends that you could interview is that it?
DJG: Friends that future students could interview.
AJB: I’ll see if I can come up with somebody Danny, that you can talk to.
DJG: Okay.
AJB: See if there’s somebody in shalom that, but I’ll have to work on that and let you know.
DJG: Thanks for all your help.
[Off the record material from 50:45 until 54:45 concerning family business]
[00:54:46]
DJG: Do you have any other stories you’d like to tell or?
AJB: I can’t think of anything else Danny.
DJG: Okay, thanks for the amazing interview.
AJB: Okay, I hope it was worthwhile.
