[Starts at 00:01]
“Today is October 9th, 2010. I am Allison Schacht and I am interviewing Henry Schacht at 1155th Ave NY, NY. Mr. Schacht is my grandfather. Mr. is 76 years old and was born on October 16, 1934. Mr. Schacht served in Vietnam. Mr. Schacht was in the United States Navy and held the following rank: Lieutenant].
[00:27]
Allison Schacht: Were you drafted or did you enlisted?
Henry Schacht: I enlisted.
[00:27]
AS: Where were you living at the time?
HS: I was living in Buffalo, New York.
[00:37] AS: Why did you join?
HS: I joined because at that time there was compulsory military service for people-for males-when they reached a certain age. And I had a choice then because of people at that time had several different choices. They could join the service of their choice, they could elect to go for two years, they could go sign up longer to become an officer and serve three and a half years. And I chose to enlist in the Navy and sign up for Officer Candidate School, which I did; became an officer and served three more years.
[01:23]
AS: Why did you pick the service branch you joined?
HS: Because I always had an affinity for the Navy. I thought maybe I would get a chance to go to sea, and see different places in the world that I've never seen before. And therefore, meet my service obligation to my country.
[01:43]
AS: Do you recall the first days in the service?
HS: I do.
[01:47]
AS: What did it feel like?
HS: It felt like very, very different. I had finished college, I had been working for a year, and when you join the Navy, the way I did and tried out for Officer Candidate School, you then go to Officer Candidate School which in those days was in Newport, Rhode Island, which you go as an enlisted person, and if you don't finish and become an officer, then in fact you serve two years as an enlisted man in the Navy. And this was-this was what we called-this was a very difficult kind of training. It was very intense, and it lasted for ninety days. In the first days it was a rude awakening to go from a college graduate and working on my own to be subjected to very, very, very rigorous rules and regulations etc, etc. It was very different.
[02:47]
AS: How did you get through it?
HS: Oh, it was very challenging, but it actually turned out to be fun, because it was a new and exciting, different kind of training. You learn not only about their views of how you could be an effective leader, but you also learn the various technologies that you'd have to understand if you're going to be a Navy officer.
[03:09]
AS: Which wars did you serve in?
HS: I actually didn't serve in any war, I was-after I finished my training, I was sent to Vietnam and in those days the organization was called a military assistance advisory group. And we were there to train the Vietnamese how to defend themselves against the North Vietnamese. We actually weren't fighting until later after I left.
[03:39]
AS: Do you remember arriving and what was it like?
HS: I do remember arriving; I had never been outside the United States before. And I drove my car--all the way from Erie, Pennsylvania--where I’m from and where I had gone before setting out for after I became an officer before I was shipped out to Vietnam. I drove my car to San Francisco. We got off both days, which the only transportation available was a prop plane; we didn't have jets in those days. Then we flew from San Francisco to Hawaii, to Kwajalein, to Guam, to Manila, and then to Saigon, Vietnam. And I can remember to this day stepping off the plane in a land that was very different than anything I'd ever known before-the orient. It was then called South Vietnam; it was broiling hot. The plane landed and we stepped off the plane; it was so hot. I remembered your feet actually sunk into the asphalt that was the tarmac where we were parked, and it was very hot, and very different than anything I'd ever seen before. Rice patties, people very different than what I've ever was accustomed to, and it was just the beginning of something very, very different.
[05:08]
AS: What was your job assignment?
HS: I was in what the Navy called a supply corps, so our assignment was to help the Vietnamese learn how to do statistics, to learn how to do proper accounting, to learn how to do procurement, and that's what we did.
[05:31]
AS: Did you see any combat?
HS: I did not. Combat started soon after I left. In fact, it started the day after I left. The first American soldiers were killed on the very day that I left. The closest we ever came to combat was when we were out in the countryside trying to help the Vietnamese. You could occasionally catch yourself in a position where you thought possibly there was people who were about to do you harm, but I was never fired at and I never fired a shot in anger.
[06:05]
AS: Tell me a couple of your most memorable experiences.
HS: Well the most memorable experiences were essentially to learn about the orient and to learn about people whose culture was completely different than western culture. They had different religions, they had different expectations, and they spoke a different language. Learning how to deal with those and to relate to people very different than ourselves. It was really one of the most important things that I learned. Incidents that were kind of fun is that one time we were flying north, and we got lost, and we didn't find out until a little later that we had strayed into the north part of Vietnam. And people were going nuts because the North Vietnamese were getting air crafts up to intercept our aircrafts, but by that time we-the pilot had figured out we were where we weren't supposed to be, so we came back. Another time I think is very memorable; we had weekends where we weren't working, so we borrowed a jeep and went off into the highlands of Vietnam. Then spent the weekend with Hmong tribesmen, who later became quite famous in the fighting soon after I left. We spent two days with them; that was very interesting because they were tribal; they really weren't at all exposed to the modern ways. They were living in huts etc, etc. And I always found that a fascinating part. We also got to travel; in time I got to go to Japan, I got to go to Thailand, I got to go to India, and seeing those countries always made a lasting impact on me.
[07:43]
AS: Were you awarded any medals or Citations?
HS: Yes, I was awarded what was called 'The Army Service Medal', which was a very senior medal given to several people, which is not a combat medal.
[07:59]
AS: How did you get them?
HS: Well if you were thought by your superior officers to have preformed an outstanding service, well above what was required, showed the kind of dedication that they thought was exemplary, if you went out of your way to help, to do things you didn't have to do, you spent your time helping the Vietnamese in your spare time, this was called the 'Service Medal'. And it was awarded to a few people who had been in that part of the assignment, [Stutter] the US forces-we had Army, Navy, Marine, and Air force-all stationed there at the same time. And when you came time to get home your commanding officer would recommend this for you. If they thought your service had been above and beyond.
[08:53]
AS: How did you stay in touch with your family?
HS: Well in those days, it was very difficult to stay in touch with you family because a telephone was very, very prohibitively expensive. And in order to talk to your family you had to go-there were no phones in your room, there were no phones in the base. You had to go into town to-what was called-the PTT or the Phone telepathic telegram, Post telepathic telegram, run by the Vietnamese and you would go in a week in advance and you'd book a time. You'd sign up for a time-say six o'clock Saturday night a week from now, and you'd have as much time as you would pay for, but we could only afford ten minutes. So I would pick a time three weeks in advance, I'd book my ten minutes, and I would write a post card to my mother. And send a post card and say I will call you at such-and-such a time, other than that we corresponded by what today is called snail-mail. But that’s all we had, you could also send a telegram but that had to be less than thirty words and had to be very short. And it was also very expensive, so the couple of years I was there I didn't I didn't talk to my family hardly at all. I think I made probably four phone calls in two years, and I used to try to write once a week, but probably didn't write quite that often, but I like to remember that I did.
[10:27]
AS: What was the food like?
HS: Well the food we eat in the US Military-the US Military provided our breakfast, lunch and dinner. And that food was--ok, it served its purpose of providing good nutrition. But we used to go out to eat in the local restaurants, the Chinese restaurants, the Vietnamese restaurants, and this used to be a French colony, so French restaurants. The food was very exotic, very interesting, and always much better than the food available-that the government fed us.
[11:07]
AS: Did you have plenty of supplies?
HS: Yes, of course we had everything we needed because we were a U.S. Military base, and so there was what was called a post exchange, which today we would call a supermarket. The combination of a supermarket, Wall mart, appliance store, and everything you needed they would have in what was called the Post Exchange. There was always the ability to go into the city itself-Saigon, where we lived-and buy things there from the local things that were available. So we never, never were without, there wasn't a time of hardship at all.
[11:49]
AS: Did you feel pressure of stress?
HS: Of course, living that far away in a very small country where you didn't know whether those in the north were going to invade in any time. We were always on some kind of alert, whether it was an alert that turned out to be false, or whether there were movements by the North Vietnamese army that our military found trending. Yes, you always found some kind of stress. It was always there. It never really totally disrupted the way you worked on things, but we were in the military after all, and our job was to defend in those days. Before we got into more complicated times in the Vietnam. So we had to do our training; we knew what to do. We knew we had weapons incase we needed them, I never did. But it always felt that they, the North Vietnamese, could decide to cross the boundaries anytime, and we would end up fighting. It never happened while I was there, but obviously a lot of it happened shortly after I left.
[12:57]
AS: Was there something special you did for good luck?
HS: Well good luck was mostly being sensible. In other words, we had to always be very careful. We slept behind locked doors, we had weapons in our rooms--in case we ever needed them, and we didn't go out walking around the streets in the parts of town where people worried that there might be--what we would call terrorists today. So you made your own luck. I always felt my best luck was being sent there, because it made an indelible impression on my life. I learned about different people, different parts of the world, and how to conduct one self when you're far away from home on your own. Things were both very different and all the comforts of home weren't available, and you were relatively isolated. So I always felt I was very lucky to have been there for the two years.
[13:57] AS: How did people entertain themselves?
HS: We used to play a lot of cards; we used to have movies; we used to do all the things you do in a very limited area. There were always things to do--movies, card playing, traveling and seeing different parts of the orient, things like that. But you had to be careful, because you were always told that groups of Americans were always potential targets for people who didn’t wish us well. But we had plenty to do, and we had sports. I played all the sports you would think; we had a softball team, and we had a volleyball team. We played not only even among the various services; the Navy had teams, the Army had teams, Air Force had teams, etc. etc. I also played water polo with the French; there was a French sporting club in Saigon. I had played water polo and swam a lot when I was in college, and I joined the water polo team where I was the only American, all the rest were French. So I had a great time doing that.
[15:16]
AS: Were there entertainers
HS: We really didn't have the entertainers that visited the military forces later. We didn't have that many people there at that time, so we were sort of a small off post. So entertainers didn't come by. There was music in the local bars and places like that, but again we didn't frequent those very late, because that was viewed to be a security risk. Entertainment was basically what we did for ourselves, and it basically revolved around sporting events.
[15:51]
AS: What did you do when on leave?
HS: Well on leave I went and visited every place I could get to. I went to Japan several times, I went to Cambodia a couple times, I went to Thailand, Bangkok a couple of times. Then on the Christmas between the 2 years I went to India, and spent probably between Christmas and new years in and around New Delhi visiting India, all the various shrines, temples, and old forts that characterized the Delhi area. So every chance I got I traveled to other parts of the orient, and on shorter trips I’d go all over Vietnam and see other parts of Vietnam. Up and on the cost to places called Nit Chong, Da Nang, places like that.
[16:44]
AS: Where did you travel while in service?
HS: Well in the service, as I just said on leave I traveled all over Vietnam, and then all over the orient. All the way from Japan through Cambodian, Thailand, and out to India. Then coming home I took the advantage to see other parts of the world. I came out through the pacific, because I said earlier across the pacific islands I visited San Francisco for the first time. I spent some time in Hawaii for the first time, and then we actually did island hoping across from Hawaii, to Kwajalen, to Guam, to Manila--spent some time in Manila looking around, and off to Saigon. Then on the way home I went the other way. I went from Saigon, I went to Bangkok, from Bangkok I went to Colombo Ceylon, from Colombo Ceylon I went to Bombay, from Bombay I went to Basra Iraq, from Basra Iraq I went to Athens, Athens to Rome, Rome to Paris, Paris to London, London to Shannon in Ireland, then to Gander Newfoundland, then to Boston, then to New York, and then Home. Each of those places I'd stay a day or two, so it took me about a month to get home.
[17:58]
AS: Do you recall any particularly humorous or unusual events?
HS: Oh, there were lots of humorous events. In Vietnam you'd can always find humor in the change of the weather, and I can remember many times you'd be walking across the street and in the tropics thunder storms happen very fast. You'd hear the thunderstorm coming [background noise] and you'd probably want to get to the other side. Or of course you'd get drenched, and everybody always thought that was funny. We would go out to eat places and people would end up eating things that they really didn't know what it is, and when they found out they wish they wouldn’t. Those kinds of things, they were just sort of everyday life kinds of humorous events. And then there were always humorous events among the work, because trying to teach the Vietnamese things that we found very ordinary, but they absolutely couldn’t understand what we were talking about--were always people laughing about the miscommunication. And then for part of the time I taught English to young Vietnamese who wanted to learn English. But my rule iwa you had to speak English in the classroom, of course they'd always communicate in Vietnamese. They'd always try to get me to say something in Vietnamese and I always said things that I thought it meant something and they certainly meant something else judging from their laughter. So you always had a lot of fun in the classroom.
[19:32]
AS: What were some of the pranks that you or others would pull?
HS: We used to hide peoples things, we used to send false telegrams, we'd do all the things that young twenty year olds did when they were far from home and were looking to play pranks. We would order drinks that weren't really what the other person ordered, we'd order food where we knew what it was but the other person didn't, well those kinds of things but they were all trivial and just part of my everyday life.
[20:08]
AS: Do you have photographs?
HS: Boxes, boxes, and boxes of them.
[20:13]
AS: Who were the people in the photographs?
HS: They would almost always be the colleagues that I had, and in and around everyday life I've got pictures of sporting teams, I've got pictures of room mates, I've got pictures of people who lived across the hall, I've got everybody; pictures of taking the boat down the Saigon river, I've got pictures of people up in the highlands visiting the Hmong people, I've got people way in the imperial city, I've got pictures of Akonadi Harbor, and then I’ve got pictures of places I visited so I've got boxes and boxes of pictures.
[20:52]
AS: What did you think of officers or fellow soldiers?
HS: I always was enormously impressed with the dedication of the people in the military, I didn't have any view of the military but I heard all sorts of things. Most of them weren't terribly flattering to piece the military, but what I found is dedicated people who really, believe in what they were doing, trying hard to get it right, very honorable people, very interesting people, broad gauce, thoughtful. I was enormously impressed with people in the U.S. Military--all four branches. And how hard they worked and how much they cared about what they were doing, and how little they were interested in combat. [Stutter] There were a lot of people when I was in Vietnam; about half of us were like myself. We'd come out of a university, gone to officer candidate school, and been assigned. The other half was professional military, many of them had been in Korea, many of them had fought in the Korean War, and they knew what it was like. The last thing most the professional military wants to do is to fight, they're trained to fight, they'll do it if they have to, and they'll do it extremely well as we've seen. But they would try their very “darndest” to council everybody in and out of the last resort, not the first. And I was enormously impressed with the U.S. Military personnel, how the way it treated people, its training, I came away with enormous understanding and real--I guess respect is the best word. I was so impressed with it; I gave serious consideration to making it a career, but in the last instant decided not to.
[22:43]
AS: Did you keep a personal diary?
HS: I did not. [Mix up in talking] I just was never interested in doing it, the only kind of diary I had were pictures.
[22:54] AS: Do you recall the day your service ended?
HS: I do, I do. After the two years in Vietnam I had another year to serve, I was transferred to the small installation south of San Francisco called Moffet field, which was a Navel Air station. I worked there for a year, and I can remember the day I got out, because the day I got out was two days before your grandma and I got married. Then we headed off to Boston.
[23:26]
AS: Did you go to work or back to school?
HS: I went back to school.
[23:31]
AS: Was your education supported by the G.I. Bill?
HS: No, the G.I. Bill wasn't available in those days. Those of us, who served early in Vietnam, before a certain date, were not eligible. Though it would've made a lot of a difference, because when it was made retroactively available, I was way too old to avail myself from it.
[23:53]
AS: Did you make any close friendships while you were in service?
HS: Yes, I made lots of close friends. Some of them I still stay in touch with, I've met some very good friends in officer candidate school, and I made some more friends in fly course school, which was a second schooling after you became a commissioned officer. Two or three people in Vietnam where we still stay in touch with, and then when I came back to San Francisco there were two or three people there that we still stay in touch with. It’s the kind of service and kind of intense experience that brings friendships.
[24:33]
AS: Did you join the Veterans organization?
HS: I was a member of the reserves for a period of seven years, because that was part of the requirement. But in those days they had more people as part of the reserve cord so I did not have to go to any meeting or summer camps. They just had more people then they needed, and they had plenty of people who were in the reserves, who volunteered to go to the summer camps. So I was never in the active reserves.
[25:02]
AS: What did you go on to do as a career after the war?
HS: After the war I went to graduate school, graduate school for business at Harvard. I went from there to Cummings Venture Company in Columbus, Indiana. I stayed there for thirty-three years.
[25:20]
AS: Did your military experiences influence your thinking about war or the military in general?
HS: Yes, of course. Since I was never in combat I didn't have those kinds of experiences, thank goodness to have to learn from and work my way through. But I came out, as I said earlier, with tremendous respect for the professional military person. Most of whom I know from either first hand experiences for most of them from first hand experience. Fighting is the last resort, and fighting is an ugly, brutal--and not at all to be chosen as a way of life. Even if you were trained for it, I came away with enormous respect. I also came away with a higher degree of skepticism about some of the things the military people are asked to do, for which they're really not as equipped as other people are. Vietnam taught me that it's very hard to try to train people to do things that they have no interest in doing. So I have always been very skeptical of our involvement, whether it'd be in the islands or the Caribbean, or Iraq, or even today in Afghanistan. I’m skeptical that these are activities that are likely to be successful. The military was designed for different kinds of activities, in the first coat invasion of Kowait, they could demonstrate it how the military has a limited capacity to solve limited issues. But I’m skeptical that it [Mumbled] could not do that.
[27:03]
AS: Do you attend reunions?
[Question repeated]
HS: No I don't.
AS: How did your service and experience affect your life?
HS: Well it taught me a lot about leadership, about how to behave when you are the only person in a situation when you have to decide how to do and what to do. It taught me about building confidence in people, which you are responsible for. It taught me about personal behavior in different lands. It taught me to respect people that were very different from myself. It taught me the importance of rules and regulations, and the dangers if those rules and regulations become overly impersonal. It taught me respect for my country, respect for my countries values, and respect for other people’s values from different danars. It was a perspective about a whiter world then the US; I don't think I ever could have been able to think about it--participate in parts of the world that are now hugely important, and understand that they come from different perspectives over long periods of time, and their view of the world are as legitimate as our views of the world. I was enormously interested in and involved in those parts of the world where I spent my two years. From a business point of view I spent a lot of time, as you know, in China, in India, in Japan, and dealing with those cultures, and the organizations in those cultures. I don't think I ever would have had that kind of perspective without the chance of [Mumbles] indifference.
[28:51]
AS: Is there anything you would like to add that we have not covered in this interview?
HS: Only that I wish every young person--male and female--would have had the same opportunity I did. To learn all about these things without having to experience the ugly side of being in the military, which is to do things which military people train to do, but only when everything else is [still?]. So I got all the benefited military service without having to bear the burdens.
AS: Ok, well this concludes the interview, and thank you so much for taking part in this project.
HS: Well thank you for asking me Allison.
[Unneeded chatter]
